Mapping Airports/Scenery as a community

[mdavis 10]

Yes, I spent a couple of hours this morning reading over tutorials and manuals.  It is very confusing at first, and I still have a LOT of questions.  I worked on my little local airport in WED but I had trouble getting ground textures to look right, messing with square exclusion zones - the whole thing.

 

But looking over Overlay Editor, JOSM and W2XP has added some to the confusion, so I'm trying to figure out what to use and when to use it.  Forget Blender and Sketcher for the moment.

 

I'm tempted to start over from scratch, update OSM and then generate the Scenery Pack with W2XP, except that I need to do some runway work in WED to relocate a taxiway, add lines and all that stuff.  So do I fix the runways in WED first or last?  Do I update OSM first and then run W2XP on the updated OSM file?  Very confusing.  I haven't found any walk-through that takes you from a bare runway and explains how these individual tools interface and work together, which to use first, etc.  But I'll figure it out and then maybe I'll add a tutorial for the rest of us.  What's there is good, but it isn't broad enough for beginners to know what they need to know.

And PLEASE don't think that's a complaint, just an observation from a total newcomer to scenery editing.

[tonywob 4,769]

 

 

I'm tempted to start over from scratch, update OSM and then generate the Scenery Pack with W2XP, except that I need to do some runway work in WED to relocate a taxiway, add lines and all that stuff.  So do I fix the runways in WED first or last?

 

It doesn't really matter how or in what order you do it, but some things below to help any confusion:

 

- WED is generally used for doing just the airports, i.e. Adding runways, taxiways and buildings. In theory you could use it to map towns and villages, but it would be lots of work. People use this to create simple lego brick airports and upload them to the gateway for inclusion into X-Plane.

- W2XP/OSM is used for converting the surrounding town/countryside into X-Plane from data in OSM. All you need to do here is edit OSM and then at some point generate the scenery. The scenery generated won't contain any airports, these will be done separately by WED and don't come from OSM. Rivers, streams and coastline changes will go into the next HD Mesh and/or next update of X-Plane's main mesh scenery.

- OverlayEditor is another editor to allow viewing and editing scenery directly inside X-Plane. When I've made airports, I've used OverlayEditor as it gives a good 3D view of the scenery you're working on and lets you move things around, etc.. However OverlayEditor can't modify or edit runways and taxiways.

 

So, if you just want to add buildings, forests and roads around airports then you only need to edit OSM. If you want to modify actual airports then you need to only use WED. Of course you can do both, but they both don't depend on each other.

[jasonX 24]

I have a new internet connection in two or three weeks which will give me the extra I needed to contribute in this area.

Regards

[mdavis 10]

Thanks, Tony.  I think I had it mostly right.  What I'm having problems with is knowing how to outline the airport in WED to work on the tarmac and taxiways and where to quit WED and switch to W2XP.  Should hangers be set with JOSM/W2XP or should I include them in WED (probably)?  Wouldn't there be an overlap if they were shown in both, or is there sufficient exclusion in which WED takes preference when there are duplicated buildings?  I'm tempted to just set runways and taxiways and switch to JOSM/W2XP and put all the hangers and airport buildings in there.  But if I do that, I can't upload my airport to Gateway for XP to use because Gateway doesn't know about the buildings in W2XP.  So perhaps I should keep airport related buildings in WED?  But if I do that and then want to edit OSM, does that mean I should NOT mark those WED buildings in OSM to prevent duplication?  OK, but shouldn't OSM include those buildings placed in WED?

 

My home airport KEOS has some extended grass areas south of the runway, and some surrounding forests.  The default textures show a cross-hatch of streets within some of the airport grounds that don't exist.  What I need for those grassy areas is ... grass.  So in a preliminary version using WED, I had to create a huge taxiway of grass in order to overlay the unwanted textures.  Perhaps those grassy areas would better be displayed in OSM/W2XP?  Guess I'll have to try it.  Lots of dirt areas as well that should be shown as dirt.  Guess I'll just have to play with it.

 

As well as looking for some direction here, I guess what I'm also saying is that this scenery is not simple, and those of us who would take the extended time to learn how and when to use each of these tools will not be getting much flying time.  I'd like to complete some of my local airports but I have a long way to go.  I hope others have less trouble than I have.

[jasonX 24]

 

<quote>

So in a preliminary version using WED, I had to create a huge taxiway of grass in order to overlay the unwanted textures.  Perhaps those grassy areas would better be displayed in OSM/W2XP?

<unquote>

 

Was thinking maybe an exclusion zone in WED might be a better option.

[tonywob 4,769]

 

 

Should hangers be set with JOSM/W2XP or should I include them in WED (probably)?

 

No, you should almost certainly create all the detail for the airport (including buildings, trees, taxiways, etc) inside WED. These airports will be uploaded to the gateway and available to everyone (including those who don't use W2XP). Also, if you add buildings and woodland inside OSM to an airport, World2XPlane will ignore them to prevent conflicts with airport scenery. So anything you want to appear inside an airport (i.e. The entire perimeter), should be done in WED. Anything outside the airport perimeter can be done inside OSM. For example, if the perimeter of the airport doesn't include the woodland/forests and the south of the runway, then you should add these into OSM.

 

For dirt and grass areas, World2Plane won't help you here (It could do, but isn't configured to do so).  If you are seeing roads that aren't there in real-life, then almost certainly you should edit OSM and remove/fix them (But make sure you are 100% certain they aren't there). Otherwise, as jasonX suggested, add an exclusion zone inside WED to block network items (roads, railways, etc). Try and keep everything related to the airport inside WED so that all the changes you do go straight to the gateway. General scenery outside of the airport should all be done inside OSM/W2XP.

 

Any more questions then let me know :smile:

[mdavis 10]

Thank you, Tony.  What I think I'm seeing in areas within and adjacent to the airport are XP-generated areas of city block roads as apparently XP's data shows those areas as within it's city-defined boundaries.  I didn't consider trying a road-exclusion, so I'll try that.  There are extended areas of dirt within and adjacent to the airport that should show as dirt, and grass areas well beyond the airport itself to the south.  I'll play with the exclusion zones and see what the default is with roads excluded.  These are not sharply defined roads, but blurry texture roads that have no real world counterpart.

 

Thanks for clearing up the airport building question.  I'll enter the buildings in both WED and OSM and let the computer figure out which to display.  I just wish the default "lib" library had a better selection.  Is that something they are working on?  Sounds as if I need two versions, one to upload to Gateway, and one detailed to reality.

 

And my apologies if this is an inapproprite thread in which to ask these questions.  I thought my questions might be of interest to others just starting into scenery building.

 

Thanks again, Tony!

[tonywob 4,769]

 

 

I'll enter the buildings in both WED and OSM and let the computer figure out which to display.  I just wish the default "lib" library had a better selection.  Is that something they are working on?

 

This is exactly what many people do. They'll use lego bricks to create a basic airport, and then create a custom detailed airport to upload somewhere. You'd be surprised how much can be achieved with just the default buildings, but if you know the airfield for real then it can become quite limiting. But it's much better than having no buildings at all. I'm currently working on my 4th airfield which is proving difficult because I'm trying to map buildings which I didn't take photographs for, so it's a guess work of patching together different textures so it looks almost realistic.

[eemer 0]

These last two posts are what I was wondering about myself. I've been working on KMKE for the past 6 months now through WED, and using the Chi. photoscenery (which goes all the way north to MKE) as the layer underneath. Not as clear as say, Google Earth, but enough to provide exact locations to place the proper sized buildings upon. And I've gone sometimes 2 miles in each direction from the airport to include much of the surrounding business parks and neighborhoods. This is my home airport, which I actually work at everyday in real life, so I pretty much am going overboard trying to include everything.

 

So with that in mind, I guess its better to just offer it up outside of the Gateway since I'm using more than just the basic objects that is acceptable for inclusion in the Gateway airports....Correct???

 

And, when uploading a "finished" (its really never finished is it?) airport, is it customary to include all the object libraries used, provide links to them, or just say what libraries are needed and everyone gets them on their own? This is my first time even considering putting my stuff out there, but I have to say it looks awesome.

Thanks for any input.

 

Tom

[tonywob 4,769]

nd I've gone sometimes 2 miles in each direction from the airport to include much of the surrounding business parks and neighborhoods

 

You certainly should upload it, I'd really love to see this as I'm sure many others would. I'm not sure what LR consider the cut-off point for what's included in a gateway airport package, but since you've used more than the default objects you couldn't upload it to the gateway. If you use OSM, you could probably do this far quicker and populate the entire area around (Especially over the course of 6 months). I spent some time populating my former town and airport in OSM and now the entire district, surrounding towns, farmland are all done. It took around 30mins to and hour each day, but the results are fantastic and have improved the scenery 100% (So much so, that flying low and slow in an R22 helicopter at 60-70kts is a joy).

 

I'd suggest you upload the airport for others on the file library here and on the xplane.org. I'm sure many people would be very grateful, especially since you know the area very well. Generally people just list the required libraries, e.g. R2, FF, RU, etc..

 

I understand the "it's never finished" approach. I went really overboard with the few GA airports I've created. I actually visited each place in person and took hundreds of photographs and then modelled each building, fence, etc.. using as much detail as possible and making it match the photos to the best I can. The entire experience for me is not only the flying, but also the startup, taxi, departure, approach and landing. The more realistic it looks, the better it feels. With my current WIP airfield, I'm modelling the entire nearby industrial estate as it really is prominent on the approach, it's quite a bit of work, but each building I create ends up going back into the library for World2XPlane. It's great watching videos of the real approaches and seeing just how close and recognisable it is.

[eemer 0]

I'm sure a dumb question, but how do I attach a few screenshots to a post?

 

Tom

[tonywob 4,769]

 

 

I'm sure a dumb question, but how do I attach a few screenshots to a post?

 

Easiest way is to:

 

a) Make sure your pic is a jpg or under 400kb

b) Go to postimage.org and upload the images

c) Once posted on postimage.org, click the direct link "Copy to clipboard" for each image and on Avsim in the editing toolbar, click the image button, and paste the URL it gives you. It will them embed the images into your post

[eemer 0]

Thanks Tony!

 

Test upload of KMKE pics

 

http://s23.postimg.org/bxkeiwamy/Car_B58_Baron_2.jpg

http://s22.postimg.org/iav0tnnog/Car_B58_Baron_5.jpg

http://s22.postimg.org/f6kcwv6w0/Car_B58_Baron_6.jpg

http://s22.postimg.org/8rpxdxpk0/Car_B58_Baron_11.jpg

 

Tom

[tonywob 4,769]

Fantastic work Tom, you absolutely should upload that :smile:

 

With OSM, if you add those buildings into OSM, then W2XP will generate those buildings for you as an entire country/state scenery. However, if you want exact control over the appearance (not the shape) of the building, you can only currently add the models yourself as you've done (Not 100% true, you can in W2XP choose colours, height, etc..)

[eemer 0]

Thanks.

 

Though without the underlaying photoscenery, it kind of looks like garbage. Way too much grass and not enough pavement. Since it is the Simheaven photoscenery that has since been removed from the website, would I have to include that in the upload, and is that even legal?

 

Tom