Engine inflight restart not simulated?

[jgoggi 65]

Rob, that might be a workaround, but:

 

1) I would like to have a failure with the possibility of restarting the engine inflight within the random failures that can be set for the airplane, without me knowing in advance that that failure will occur.

 

2) I have watched lots of 777 cockpit videos and in none of them the EICAS message AUTOSTART OFF is present, in any phase of the flight.

 

3) In the 777 I can accept that the autostart relights the engine, but why does it always happen also on the 737? The 737 does not have the autostart, so why do engines ALWAYS restart automatically after an engine flameout?

[pete_auau 1,159]

Rob, that might be a workaround, but:

 

Hi james  went  a purchased  fsipanel  and guess what followed  what he  had  done  in the video  and  got  the same  results,    he  had shown in the video  n1   didn't  go  to zero and  stayed around the same  n1  value  as per the video.  Strange huh  it  didn't  work  for me  previously  and now it  works using  fsipanel, although i only  had a quick go of  it  since the n1  value  didn't  go  to zero so iam assuming  everything  should  go the same  as per the video.   Wonder if  any one  else  who got  fsipanel has the same results?   have to test it out  fully  since  have to go out  for dinner  but  so far it look  promising

 

James  iam just doing  what the  he  has  done  in the video so it might be different  to what your  wanting  from it

[moisesbrittes 3]

3) In the 777 I can accept that the autostart relights the engine, but why does it always happen also on the 737? The 737 does not have the autostart, so why do engines ALWAYS restart automatically after an engine flameout?

Just some real life information....

 

I fly the real B737 Ng and the aircraft has the auto relight system that works exatly as you have described. Everytime that we have a simple flameout with no damage to the engine it will relight. We had some cases on the fleet a few years ago when a new EEC software from Boeing caused a lot of engine flameouts and I can tell you, despite how it was suposed to work, every single flameout was unique. We had a relight after the engine was almost completely dead and another one that the crew never knew they had a flameout and we had to rely on data of a future analisys.

 

On the Level-D B737NG simulator we have the option of flameouts with and without the autorelight just for training and not to lose the handling skills of single engine, but the PMDG has it right and it works exatly as it would on the real aircraft. Maybe, thinking about SP2, they could include the Level-D simulator option on the failures page for training. Just a thought.

 

Hope this information helps.

 

Best regards,

 

Moises Brittes.

[jgoggi 65]

Thank you, Moises, for your input. My consideration came from the fact that, since there is an abnormal procedure for engine inflight restart and, in the 777, even a magenta indication on the EICAS with the range of speeds for the restart, this should mean that it may happen and also after watching several videos of both 737 and 777 simulators where this kind of failure occurs. Further, I don't know if you have FS2Crew with Emergency for the 737 NGX, but there it is clearly stated that, after the engine has failed, an inflight start with related checklist may be attempted if there is N1/N2 rotation.  

[denerin 0]

Thank you, Moises, for your input. My consideration came from the fact that, since there is an abnormal procedure for engine inflight restart and, in the 777, even a magenta indication on the EICAS with the range of speeds for the restart, this should mean that it may happen and also after watching several videos of both 737 and 777 simulators where this kind of failure occurs. Further, I don't know if you have FS2Crew with Emergency for the 737 NGX, but there it is clearly stated that, after the engine has failed, an inflight start with related checklist may be attempted if there is N1/N2 rotation.  

But as far as I understand it, and from what I can read from the checklist (both 737 and 777) the engine restart checklist comes after selecting the engine start lever to Cutoff.

So if you:

Fail the engine -> Engine start lever cutoff (as per the checklist) -> clear the failure (the engine of course will not start at this point) -> do the Engine In-flight checklist.

This could be a workaround (as I understand it, this is also what is suggested in the FSiPanel forum).

[moisesbrittes 3]

Ok, guys, let's go step by step on this one. We have two possible scenarios.

 

Let's see the first one with the autorelight:

 

At V1 we have the engine failure. We fly the airplane until 400 ft with no actions but "gear up". At acceleration height ( This value has a possible range that we can talk another time ) you request "bug up" or check if the "vnav" is doing its job. Than we retract the flap. During this process the autorelight system got the engine running again.

 

Which no normal checklist do we need? None..... The aircraft is working fine and we do not have any system malfunction at the present time. We do the after take off checklist and decide the best course of action. We may return for safety or we may proceed with the flight if, for any reason, returning is not an option. You need to have in mind that something is wrong with that engine and it may fail again.

 

Now without the autorelight:

 

Same as before, but at this time, after the flap retraction, for any reason at all, the autorelight system failed to do what it has to do. So, we have an engine fail.

 

What do we do?

 

If we have N1/N2 rotation, we go to ENG FAIL no normal checklist, if we do not have we go to ENG SEVERE DAMAGE no normal checklist.

 

Let's say we have rotation. We complete the NNC, after that we go for the after take off checklist. After that we'll try to restart the engine. Only manually for the 737 and either way on the 777. If we have sucess, once again we decide the safest course of action. Return or proceed with an

unreliable engine. If we do not achieve sucess on the restart we go to the ONE ENG INOP LAND NNC and we land single engine.

 

Tha's the Boeing procedure of eng fail on the take off with a go decision ( after V1 ) with the autorelight system working or not. This philosofy can be used in other scenarios as for final approach, for example, and for all Boeing fleet that has this feature.

 

If anything comes out or any further doubt is still there, feel free to ask.

 

Regards,

 

Moises Brittes

[777simmer 117]

Ok, guys, let's go step by step on this one. We have two possible scenarios.

Let's see the first one with the autorelight:

At V1 we have the engine failure. We fly the airplane until 400 ft with no actions but "gear up". At acceleration height ( This value has a possible range that we can talk another time ) you request "bug up" or check if the "vnav" is doing its job. Than we retract the flap. During this process the autorelight system got the engine running again

What the OP wants is an engine failure where ignition alone does not relight the engines.

 

Like no fuel flow.

 

Autorelight ignition would help nothing in that case.

A reset of the EEC (fuel control switch off/on) might or might not.

 

But enough workarounds have been offered here by myself and others to simulate what the OP wants (or at least close enough).

Beyond that......PMDG would have to change the software.......I cant imagine this is a priority though.

[jgoggi 65]

Thank you all for your suggestions. My wish would be to have, among the random failures, an engine failure that did not auto-restart and that could allow a manual restart, so that each time one gets an engine failure it's not sure whether or not the engine may be restarted. Of course it is not a priority, but it would add a lot to the dramaticity of the moment and give value to the restart procedure, otherwise it would never be applied if one relies only on random failures.

[vonmar 123]

Thank you all for your suggestions. My wish would be to have, among the random failures, an engine failure that did not auto-restart and that could allow a manual restart, so that each time one gets an engine failure it's not sure whether or not the engine may be restarted. Of course it is not a priority, but it would add a lot to the dramaticity of the moment and give value to the restart procedure, otherwise it would never be applied if one relies only on random failures.

 

Well said ...

 

It would be nice to have this exactly as you outlined here ( from your previous posts also .. very clear and understandable).