Game or Sim?

[Staffan 12]

>As far as the defualt being a simulator, I would suggest that>whether or not you think its a good simulator doesn't>matter. It obviously makes the attempt to simulate reality to>a degree, and I would also suggest that while not nearly as>complete as many of the add-ons we can get, the defualt 172 is>certainly not that bad.Well,...then I guess that you and I have different opinions on what a simulator is. ;-)Can we please have someone in this forum who can decide once and for all if this is a Simulator or Game. :-lolHappy gaming, Staffan AhlbergSweden/Stockholm/ESSAhttp://www.scandicair.com/images/dc9_banner.jpg"I will come and cut your lawn for a high quality DC8-63 system"[/color]My specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)128 Mb ATI Radeon 9800 ProOmega 2.5.58DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP1E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"240Gb (2x120) 7200rpm HD

[Dark Moment 0]

<<>>Firstly, Staffan, I need to know whether your lawn mower is default or whether you have any add-ons for it.How is the sound? I don't want you annoying the neighbours.Does it save autosave grass? Does it have autopilot?Lastly, if it doesn't have a VC, it won't be cutting edge.Mark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

[Staffan 12]

><<system>>>>>Firstly, Staffan, I need to know whether your lawn mower is>default or whether you have any add-ons for it.>>How is the sound? I don't want you annoying the neighbours.>>Does it save autosave grass? Does it have autopilot?>>Lastly, if it doesn't have a VC, it won't be cutting edge.>Hi Mark,Long time no talk. ;-)Good one that one...The cutting lawn thing will only happen if someone makes a DC8-63 system like the PS 1.3. Which in my opinion is the only simulator worth its category. ;-)Take care, Staffan AhlbergSweden/Stockholm/ESSAhttp://www.scandicair.com/images/dc9_banner.jpg"I will come and cut your lawn for a high quality DC8-63 system"[/color]My specs are:Dell Dimension 4600 P4/3.0 Ghz1024 Mb DDR333 Dual channel memory (2x256,1x512)128 Mb ATI Radeon 9800 ProOmega 2.5.58DirectX 9.0cW XP Home with SP1E171FPb Flat panel monitor 17"240Gb (2x120) 7200rpm HDhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/122142.jpg

[jfri 42]

>Without a doubt, it's much closer to a sim, than a game. I>think it really falls into the same category as other>entertainment titles such as, war sims, like Sid Meier's>Gettysburg, etc. What this means, is that everything is>faithfully recreated to real life as much as possible.>I think it's much more difficult to make a war sim realistic than FS.I think of the AI in all war sims I have played the enemy behaves very irrationally and the situation is more complex and more difficult to depict in a realistic way.I would sayFS9 is more a simulation than gameRome Total War (which I play now) is definitely a game and not a simulation of the Roman Empire.

[Guest Philip Olson]

If anyone wants my two cents, you probably don't. :-) I have to say it depends on how it is used, many people buy it and fly the little planes around without trying to learn much about really flying, for those it is a game. On the other hand I can prove it is a simulator, I was able to get into the cockpit of a real 737 and set it up for a flight without any help from anyone. I was also able to get into a 737 full motion sim and do a flight from start up to shut down without a hitch thanks to the PMDG 737. If I can do something like this with MSFS it makes it a sim without a doubt, if it was a game I would not have the adequate knowledge to fly a real world counter part. One further comment is that MSFS tries to simulate the world as best it can with current technology and it gets more realistic with each passing year. I will grant you that the flight models of the default planes are not the best but over all they do a pretty good job considering the wide variety of consumers they are trying to get.Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

[Guest Gordius]

Phew I just wore my glasses out reading that one Mike ;-) . So far I have decided that not only is it a sim but that for some I agree it is a game. For me it is a sim but first and foremost a way of life. Some people read novels while I read the Feb 1961 "Pilots Notes (advance Issue) Beaver (a.L.) Mk.1." that sits beside me even as I type. Some surf the net looking for holidays while I spend the morning finding as many pics of a Cessna Skylane panel as I can find within such a short time for my next project. When my daugher visits me she likes to sit on the sofa and talk my answer was to move the desk beside the sofa rather than sit with my back to her so as not to appear rude. Some keep the kettle in the kitchen but mine "lives" within sight of my desk so that I can avoid a pause. Some have paintings on the wall but I have an enamelled sign advertising Imperial Airways. Holidays - a flightSIM conference of course. When my daughter had a PC recently I suppose a few strange people might buy a present of a game but I bought FS9 and a stick. And the list goes on.It is a way of life as well as a sim and I am very happy with my life just as it is. If anyone treats it as a game then I say good luck to them but I can also tell them that crashing a 767 into a tree soon gets boring.By the way Mike kids eventually grow up and go away. Mine have and I no longer have to spend 20 minutes looking for the biggest mountain to crash into. Your time will come.Andrew*:-*

[Guest artmartin]

Here's my bottom line. I've never taken formal flight training but I'm absolutely convinced, after years on Microsoft Flight Sim software, that I could take off in a small plane, do some rather elaborate maneuvers, and land the sucker unharmed. I'd make some boneheaded mistakes and would have no clue about the radio protocols and using charts but the physics of flying have been engrained into me in a very robust manner. I had a chance a few times to test out that hypothesis when friends have taken me up in small craft and gliders and handed the controls over. They felt natural and there was absolutely no fear or intimidation as I'd expect without the sim experience. I held on loosely to the controls during landing and it certainly seemed that everything the pilot did was exactly the input I'd be making. Now believe me, I'm certainly not going to be going down to the local airfield and steal a plane for a joyride. I fully intend to go through pilot training first. Just have to convince the wife it's something we can't live without. Art Martin

[LAdamson 240]

>Can we please have someone in this forum who can decide once>and for all if this is a Simulator or Game. :-lolThe stock 172 requires right rudder for takeoff roll & climb, just like the real one.Stock 172 is "gutless" in high density altitudes, and requires leaning, just like the real one! A SIM it is!!! :D Seriously, right out of the box, and in my flying area (KSLC), MSFS has rather accurate topography, correct airports, correct runways, correct building locations, and most correct frequencies for ATC & nav work. For a GA flight in general, the proceedures are rather realistic & entertaining at the same time. The stock 172 will get from point A to B, with normal pilot inputs & no high mountains in the way.Note: Some frequencies, airspaces, taxiway ways, lakes, roads, have changed since the database incorporated into FS2004. But that's what current charts are for.For more personal use, I use aircraft such as the RealAir SF260, Flight1 172 & Dreamfleet A36 for enchanced performance, panels & looks. I also use FSGenesis mesh.L.Adamson

[Dark Moment 0]

Glad to hear someone stick up for the default sim, for once. Considering its scope, and the primary market it is intended for, MS has done a fantastic job with FS2004 and the fact that we are offered a new, revised product pretty well every two years is nothing short of astonishing, really.Oohh ... did I say sim, again? Yes, I said sim.Mark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

[Guest Ozark Dogfighter]

I'll agree, Art. After years of playing Quake with my friends, I still couldn't shoot a nail gun in life like I could in that game.FS = Not a Game-JeremyThe Ozark DogfighterHappy Flying!

[Stelios 11]

Nothing wrong to call it a game.Marriage is also a game....Who is going to win at the end...lolStelios

[Mike T 208]

Marriage is NOT a game. It is most definitely a *simulation*. It is a simulation of horrific human carnage the likes of which can only be compared to the unimagineable desolation, hellspawed scalding pain, skin peeling horror and the mind numbing destruction of being at ground zero at Hiroshima durning the instant of the atomic detonation. At the end, all that is left of once happy people are shadows of former humans eteched into walls and bridges while the dust of their tormented irradiated bones and flesh blows aimlessly into the angry wind. Yes my friend, at the bitter end as they lower you into your grave and the simulation ends, there is nothing left, but shadows and dust.And as such, it does a pretty good job.Regards,Mike T.

[Guest Philip Olson]

Amen brother! :-)Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

[Guest abent]

I am aware of at least one flight college that uses it with their pilots to practice cross-country flying. Also, yesterday I was speaking with a pilot from a rather large Canadian helicopter firm that is in the process of installing FS9 on a number of computers, again for their pilots. I know this because in the former case, several of the sceneries my small design group created have been installed on their machines and in the latter case, they will be installed soon. Interpret that as you may. :D Adam

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

It's not so much the calling it a game that's a problem. It's more the fact that (in my experience anyway) when someone refers to it as a game, the message they are trying to send is really "it's just a game, don't take it so seriously ya weenie." Some people seem to be really bothered by the fact that anyone might dare to think they are actually learning something useful from the sim about the act of flying a plane that might even apply to the real world in some way. In other words, calling it a game really isn't a problem at all except for the fact that doing so is usually sort of intended as an insult...