Hi folks, 

 

I am just on my way LFPG--AFR438--MMMX and planned for NAT track B: 

 

B GOMUP 59/20 61/30 62/40 61/50 PIDSO

EAST LVLS NIL

WEST LVLS 310 320 330 350 360 370 380 390

EUR RTS WEST GINGA

NAR -

 

Before GOMUP I climbed to FL310. To my knowledge the assigned FL is kept until you leave the track, here PIDSO. 

Since the FMS planned step climbs while on track, I though I could set the FL to FL310 while on track B and entered FL310. 

 

However, the FMS immediately reported 'Insufficient Fuel' as a consequence that no further step climbs where planned after leaving track B. 

 

So, I deleted FL310 again, but this somehow crashed the VNAV mode: 

The left FMC accepts display changes, but no inputs anymore. Only the right FMC accepts my inputs. 

 

Trying to activate VNAV again, give the FMC message 'PERF/VNAV UNAVAILABLE'. 

 

I changed to RTE2 (after I had copied RTE1 to RTE2 before departure), 

But the VNAV page (left FMC) accepts FL changes (not the PERF page), but without effect; also step climbs are not planned despite RVSM mode. 

(No PMDG failure is active....) 

 

What's going on?

Have you tried to set FLs, but crashed the VNAV mode? 

Is it real that you loose VNAV mode after deleting FLs, which you set erroneously into the LEGS page? 

 

Thanx. 

 

 

 

BTW: The real AFR438 just diverted to Brest after fuel dump...

What's going on?

Have you tried to set FLs, but crashed the VNAV mode? 

Is it real that you loose VNAV mode after deleting FLs, which you set erroneously into the LEGS page? 

 

Try Tutorial #1.5, and then report back.

Hi Kyle, 

 

(thank for your reference to tutorial 1.5; I was not aware of this one. )

 

On my right hand FMC (left still does not accept inputs) I enter .84/340S for some waypoints ahead of airway Q820: 

 

KAPUX   .840/FL340S

ETBOX   ----/FL340S

 

I enter to DERLO E/ to resume ECON, but still FMS does *not* calculate next step climbs. 

 

DERLO   ECON/------

 

Step is set to RVSM, the original flight plan presented step up to FL360. 

Even without step climb, should not FL340 show up until T/D? 

Hi Kyle, 

 

(thank for your reference to tutorial 1.5; I was not aware of this one. )

 

On my right hand FMC (left still does not accept inputs) I enter .84/340S for some waypoints ahead of airway Q820: 

 

KAPUX   .840/FL340S

ETBOX   ----/FL340S

 

I enter to DERLO E/ to resume ECON, but still FMS does *not* calculate next step climbs. 

 

DERLO   ECON/------

 

Step is set to RVSM, the original flight plan presented step up to FL360. 

Even without step climb, should not FL340 show up until T/D? 

 

I don't recognize these fixes as Tutorial #1.5. Please, instead of salvaging whatever you've tried to do with your current flight, have a run through of Tutorial #1.5 and then use that knowledge for future flights.

I will, thank you. 

I am reading already. 

 

(The question remains whether crews might screw up their flightplan by erroneously enter and delete FLs in real live.) 

Edited October 31, 201510 yr by 19AB67

Hi Kyle, 

 

on my way back now MMMX-AFR439B-LFPG: 

Gander assigned NAT T for on FL340: 

N333BT

JOOPY 49/50 51/40 53/30 54/20 DOGAL BEXET

EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400

WEST LVLS NIL

EUR RTS EAST NIL

NAR N261A N269AU

 

On JOOPY I set.82/340S works fine, also E/ on BEXET. 

 

However, for 5420N I have to repeat .82/340S. 

Seemingly the .82/340S takes effect for the waypoint and the following three. 

(The question remains whether crews might screw up their flightplan by erroneously enter and delete FLs in real live.) 

 

They do all kinds of weird stuff, and it ends up on my desk at the day job. My concern isn't them, though, because they're not having problems. I'm concerned with how you're doing things so that I can reproduce it and see what you're doing, exactly.

 

Have any steps for us?

 

However, for 5420N I have to repeat .82/340S. 

Seemingly the .82/340S takes effect for the waypoint and the following three. 

 

How are you coming to this conclusion? Additionally, the likelihood of a step on the NATs is pretty rare (unless the traffic is light on that track).

Hi folks, 

 

I am just on my way LFPG--AFR438--MMMX and planned for NAT track B: 

 

B GOMUP 59/20 61/30 62/40 61/50 PIDSO

EAST LVLS NIL

WEST LVLS 310 320 330 350 360 370 380 390

EUR RTS WEST GINGA

NAR -

 

Before GOMUP I climbed to FL310. To my knowledge the assigned FL is kept until you leave the track, here PIDSO. 

Since the FMS planned step climbs while on track, I though I could set the FL to FL310 while on track B and entered FL310. 

 

However, the FMS immediately reported 'Insufficient Fuel' as a consequence that no further step climbs where planned after leaving track B. 

 

So, I deleted FL310 again, but this somehow crashed the VNAV mode: 

The left FMC accepts display changes, but no inputs anymore. Only the right FMC accepts my inputs. 

 

Trying to activate VNAV again, give the FMC message 'PERF/VNAV UNAVAILABLE'. 

 

I changed to RTE2 (after I had copied RTE1 to RTE2 before departure), 

But the VNAV page (left FMC) accepts FL changes (not the PERF page), but without effect; also step climbs are not planned despite RVSM mode. 

(No PMDG failure is active....) 

 

What's going on?

Have you tried to set FLs, but crashed the VNAV mode? 

Is it real that you loose VNAV mode after deleting FLs, which you set erroneously into the LEGS page? 

 

Thanx. 

 

 

 

BTW: The real AFR438 just diverted to Brest after fuel dump...

 

 

I had a somewhat similar issue a few months ago -- it may or may not be related to yours.  I corresponded w/ PMDG tech support and the short answer is that mid-flight you should change FL on VNAV-CRZ page instead of LEGS page, and if you want to stop step-climb predictions, set step climb size to 0 (zero).

 

Mike

...Please, instead of salvaging whatever you've tried to do with your current flight, have a run through of Tutorial #1.5 and then use that knowledge for future flights.

 

I am not a native speaker, but I don't like the tone of 'salvaging'. 

 

 

They do all kinds of weird stuff, and it ends up on my desk at the day job. My concern isn't them, though, because they're not having problems. I'm concerned with how you're doing things so that I can reproduce it and see what you're doing, exactly.

 

Have any steps for us?

 

Actually I do describe what I do step-wise. Maybe it is not detailed enough for you. I'll improve for you in my next posts. 

 

 

 

How are you coming to this conclusion? 

 

Because at 54/20 DOGAL '.82/340S' was not copied automatically next to the waypoint on the right hand side.

This becomes implicitly clear from my description. (A good example for me being more explicit.) 

 

 

Additionally, the likelihood of a step on the NATs is pretty rare (unless the traffic is light on that track).

 

I have not asked for a step while being on the NAT. Please read the posts more thoroughly (despite knowing that you answer a lot of posts). 

I am not a native speaker, but I don't like the tone of 'salvaging'. 

 

There was no tone implied. I was simply getting at the idea that you likely did something wrong and would benefit more from seeing the correct way to do it.

 

 

Actually I do describe what I do step-wise. Maybe it is not detailed enough for you. I'll improve for you in my next posts. 

 

Explaining that you did something is not giving steps. I'm talking about steps to reproduce the error - detailed, step by step, clicked on this button and then that button steps.

 

Because at 54/20 DOGAL '.82/340S' was not copied automatically next to the waypoint on the right hand side.

This becomes implicitly clear from my description. (A good example for me being more explicit.) 

 

No. This is not clear at all actually. .82/340S should only get sent to one waypoint. It's a single instruction: step to FL340 at this particular point. You would not repeat this for any subsequent fix.

 

I have not asked for a step while being on the NAT. Please read the posts more thoroughly (despite knowing that you answer a lot of posts). 

 

...except that I read it very carefully, and your entire post was about flying NATs, so, instead, I think it may be more beneficial that you either be more specific, or accept what I wrote about the NATs.

 

Annotated for you (red is NAT-related):

 

Hi Kyle, 

 

on my way back now MMMX-AFR439B-LFPG: 

Gander assigned NAT T for on FL340:

N333BT

JOOPY 49/50 51/40 53/30 54/20 DOGAL BEXET

EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400

WEST LVLS NIL

EUR RTS EAST NIL

NAR N261A N269AU

 

On JOOPY I set.82/340S works fine, also E/ on BEXET.  [NOTE: JOOPY is the beginning of the NAT, and BEXET is the end]

 

However, for 5420N I have to repeat .82/340S. [NOTE: During/on the NAT]

Seemingly the .82/340S takes effect for the waypoint and the following three. [NOTE: During/on the NAT]

 

Furthermore, your clarification of:

"Because at 54/20 DOGAL '.82/340S' was not copied automatically next to the waypoint on the right hand side.

This becomes implicitly clear from my description. (A good example for me being more explicit.) "

 

...also indicates that you're still on the NAT (DOGAL is on the NAT, as it is prior to BEXET). I'm at a loss at where my reading abilities are lacking.

 

If you need to write in German (assuming based on the name), then please do so, but please leave out shots on the job I'm trying to do here.