Microsoft don't seem to want to try and get the best of the best. They never contacted anyone I knew and offered a job. As a result we never saw a better aircraft or better anything really that's down to a specific talent or skill set.The tables are tuning now and there is talk of a new flight simulator maybe.Are there any Ex FS team developers or any whiz kids on the block.Contact me privately and see what's on offer. It may supprise you.

>Microsoft don't seem to want to try and get the best of the best.>They never contacted anyone I knew and offered a job. As>a result we never saw a better aircraft or better anything>really that's down to a specific talent or skill set.Glad to know that the best of the best are all your friends, Peter! ;-) You'll be appointing Supreme Court judges next!MarkMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

I am interested in seeing where this thread goes. I would rather you take the approach that you're creating a new sim for the enthusiast and leave it at that. Just because Microsoft didn't design MSFS to meet your expectations doesn't mean they lack "the best of the best". They took a franchise that doesn't "shoot 'em up", and they have programmed it to have both broad appeal and extensibility. That's outstanding talent in my book. Programming involves both knowing the code, and strong analysis on how to keep a product viable and appealing. That doesn't deny the need that "we" want more, but we aren't the market that keeps this franchise afloat.Just my 2 cents...-John

The best of the best cost too much money. Besides, most of the time you are only going to get hired if you have connections to the team

And of course, MS does contact, and work with the best of the best, when it comes to Beta time. At least the "best of the best" that I know, as well as being well known on these forums...They must care!L.Adamson

>And of course, MS does contact, and work with the best of the>best, when it comes to Beta time. But there's the next level: the "Best of the Best of the Best" ( Best Cubed, basically ), that are not choosen as Beta testers, because of their crazy ways of using FS that doesn't represent the average users, and they are not useful at all for testing.I wonder what they might think of someone who is always running FS through a low-level debugger, never flies an airplane, visit scenery only in slew mode, restarts FS 200 times each day, and such...

Now that's an interesting comment and has a ring of truth to it. I wonder if that's really the case? I'm not sure the best of the best costs too much. I know a lot of pople who are good and have never been asked to work for their team.In fact I don't know anyone who is good that has been asked to work for Microsoft. That's not to say that what they have is not good. I'm sure all their developers are good. But I wonder if they work exclusively on Flight sim or if they in fact mulit task on various projects.

It would be interesting to see what FS would be like if MS brought in the best of the best from the community, a virtual design dream team. For instance, they might call on Erick C and Albarro V to do the Boeing and Airbus models. They are skilled freeware guys but I'm sure they would ponder an offer from MS to be on the development team as would many in the community.How about default models that most would actually fly?The talent is certainly out there in all areas of the sim and would make FS a real jewel.

A bit too crypitc for me Dark Moment and maybe you missed what I was saying.I probably did not explain myself well. I was meaning it in context with our FS comunity where for example we have great talent for scenery a lot of which is freeware and it's generally better than FS9 default. Birds Eye view is just one example of how good and how much better ground scenery can be made.I was meaning for example; Microsoft don't seem to actively contact these talented developers and ask them to do work for them or even work for them.I've talked to many developers to this end and nobody I know has been asked to work for MS FS team.Aircraft has not got much better since about FS98. That's like almost 8 years, way too long for me. I can remember aircraft being better than FS default today in FS2000 so what's happening with the sim?I'm certainly not saying Microsoft don't have a great team but I am saying they could head hunt and get some better aricraft and ground textures.I'm also saying perhaps there is room for a new simulator where top people are rucruited from this talent base.Just imagine how good a sim we could have if somebody actively got top guys who have proved they can do an excelllent job and people buy their work.

I know I'm being a little confrontational John,I'm trying here to stir us all up and open our eyes and to make us be prepared to ask for more and to encourage the FS team to seek out some of our more talented programers and developers to work for them.For example; I contacted them ages ago and said I could do water and clouds for them but they didn't even respond to me let alone want to talk to see where it went.So I'm not trying here to attack FS team but more wake them up. We are a talented comunity and there are plently of developers with passion and abiblity to help them help us to make a better sim.No disrespect to FS Team but I don't think their 747 is any where near as good as the PMDG and how would it be if we got something say at least as good as the Freeware trident or other great freeware packages. Payware; well maybe the developer has more income from doing it now as payware.Eveyone is always very quick to defend others and even to defend large billion dollar organizations. But I can assure you it takes corage from me to make a post like this to stir things up knowing I'm the little guy and that I'm going to get slapped around. My goal is to make or help make a better sim. I can do that with or without MS FS Team. and maybe I can do more that at this time is appreiated.

well; I don't want to argue here but i know many testers who worked on fS9 and I know they were not listened too. I won't mention names but these are big well known developers who got really fed up not being listend to.ATC was one example that frustrated a good developer friend of mine to no end. He's got plenty of good things to say about MS too. It's not all negative.I'm just doing what I can here to really push things and see where it goes.I hope what I'm doing is appreciated as postitive and not negative. all new creation is potentially postitive and who likes a Monopoly. I would love a new sim if the truth was known

Beta testing is a thankless job I can tell you.I'm considering working on a new flight simulator project which is well funded and will be paying beta testers.I like that very much. Head hunting the best of the best is all in a days work to ultimately serve the customer.

>>I'm trying here to stir us all up and open our eyes and to>make us be prepared to ask for more and to encourage the FS>team to seek out some of our more talented programers and>developers to work for them.>I'd say, the best of the best, enjoy being "independent" 3rd party designers, just as they are now.And it's very evident, that these 3rd parties keep raising the bar. I doubt that would continue, should they just become employed.As an example, X-Plane can only wish, for all the 3rd party development that MSFS enjoys.L.Adamson

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT .... AT LOLNOW JUST IMAGINE HOW GOOD IT WOULD BE.... Sorry! am I shouting.....or just happy?

hum, interesting a comment!Could it be that those contacted are not telling around them?To me, Microsoft in general, and Flight Simulator in particular, is all about creating new economies and new market, into which third party vendors flourish and expand upon a sound base. Windows is that, Office is that, Pocket PC is that, .NET is that too and several dozens of other products.I also think that to some extent, the market benefit more from third party vendors creativity and competition, instead of having all in a single box.Having said this, you must also consider that Microsoft is both a NASDAQ company, AND, an American company, and labour law forbids recruiting someone without first issuing a job description in a public manner. Thereafter anyone is free to answer the job offer!Does this makes sense?