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art5869

Strange issue FMC 737 NGX with airac 1602

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Hi! I wonder if anyone has the same issue: I made the update of airac cycle to 1602, and all of the sudden the FMC start to read the oposite frequency and course of all runaways at all airports in FSX. For ex: at EDDM want to Land at 26L and in FMC under ILS 26Lwas the freq. And course of 08R!!! So i look in airports.txt in navdata folder and notice that all runaways of all airports was duplicate entries even with correct frequency just of One of the entries. At EDDM for ex. I had 8 entrie with 4 rwy 2 for each One! I return to an old airac cycle like 1502 and all turn to normal with 4 entries for eddm and FMC return to read correct. I am doing something wrong with installation of navdata for PMDG or what?

I use FSX and made the same cycle update for Airbus 318/319 from aerosoft and has no problem, only with pmdg update.

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Hi! I wonder if anyone has the same issue: I made the update of airac cycle to 1602, and all of the sudden the FMC start to read the oposite frequency and course of all runaways at all airports in FSX. For ex: at EDDM want to Land at 26L and in FMC under ILS 26Lwas the freq. And course of 08R!!! So i look in airports.txt in navdata folder and notice that all runaways of all airports was duplicate entries even with correct frequency just of One of the entries. At EDDM for ex. I had 8 entrie with 4 rwy 2 for each One! I return to an old airac cycle like 1502 and all turn to normal with 4 entries for eddm and FMC return to read correct. I am doing something wrong with installation of navdata for PMDG or what?

 

Don't go modifying those files unless you know what you're doing. If you notice an error or oddity, make sure to mention it to Navigraph.

 

Sounds a lot like you're approaching the runway from the opposite side with the "force CRS to FSX CRS" option enabled, and just as a matter of coincidence, seeing it just now. Basically, in the real world, airports will often have paired LOC arrays. The one side's freq will be the exact same as the other side. The difference is that, in the real world, they only power one side at a time, depending on which array is in use. In FSX/FSX:SE/P3D this isn't the case because they don't know which runway you'll be using, so the shared frequencies are active at all times. The code sees the active frequency of the one side first and sets that CRS in the CRS window, even though you're going to be landing on the other side.

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I didn't modify any file, i was only look inside airports.txt and notice the problem. I repeat with airac 1502 all works well, only with the update to 1602 cycle has this duplicare entries and FMC mess up. The question was if I do something wrong with the installer of airac for pmdg? Yes i have the option enable to Force CRS to fsx crs but this option doesn't give me any problem with older airac cycle. And again: why in cycle 1602 I have 2 entries for any rwy at any airports and in 1502 the airports.txt contain only 1 entries for each rwy?

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And again: why in cycle 1602 I have 2 entries for any rwy at any airports and in 1502 the airports.txt contain only 1 entries for each rwy?

 

Navigraph manages that data. You will need to address all of this with them.

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Navigraph manages that data. You will need to address all of this with them.

Yeah I know this,but wanted to know if someone else has this issue or is only me. Tnx.

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I made the update of airac cycle to 1602
AIRAC 1602 is out of date plus I believe the initial release was messed up. Download and install 1603 and see what happens.
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AIRAC 1602 is out of date plus I believe the initial release was messed up. Download and install 1603 and see what happens.

I download and install 1603 and the problem dissapeared,but unfortunally I notice another issue: as I almost fly in Europe, making a short fly from EDDM to LROP, trying to Land at 08L at LROP, the lenght of the rwy 08L-24R in FMC was 7883 ft and not 11483 ft like in reality or other airac cycle!!! It's absurd how lately the airac cycle are full of errors! They get even payed for this...

Correction: rwy 08L-26R at LROP.

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They get even payed for this...

 

Compare the...what...$13/year you're paying to the cost of real world nav data that the airlines pay for. I get that it's frustrating, but let's be realistic here. Mistakes will happen. Submit a ticket to them letting them know and they'll update it.

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I download and install 1603 and the problem dissapeared,but unfortunally I notice another issue: as I almost fly in Europe, making a short fly from EDDM to LROP, trying to Land at 08L at LROP, the lenght of the rwy 08L-24R in FMC was 7883 ft and not 11483 ft like in reality or other airac cycle!!! It's absurd how lately the airac cycle are full of errors! They get even payed for this...

Correction: rwy 08L-26R at LROP.

 

The 1603 AIRAC reflects the published reduced length of 08L " AIRAC AIP SUPPLEMENT 02/15 " so appears to be correct.

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Sorry but what does this has to do with??? We talk about airac 1603 (march 2016) not may 2015!!! They finished that works after three weeks!!! I live right near airport, so I should know something... And the cycle 1603 has nothing to do with it, because the 1602 from feb. 2016 report the correct lenght wich is 11.484 ft (just look in airport.txt and see), so what you are trying to say doesn' t have much sense. The airac cycle 1603 v2 has a mistake.

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Navigraph PMDG 1602 & 1603 contain the same data here as provided by Jeppesen.

 

I suggest you take it up with Navigraph or even Jeppesen.

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The airac cycle 1603 v2 has a mistake.

 

Then let them know, please.

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the lenght of the rwy 08L-24R in FMC was 7883 ft and not 11483 ft like in reality or other airac cycle!!!

I believe you have confused the runways. Both LIDO Charts and Navigraph ARPT RWY.dat show 08L-28R as you say in your post. 08R and 26L is the long runway. FSX shows both runways as long but that is incorrect. See if you can get a payware airport. Maybe it will have the correct runway lengths for the airport.

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I believe you have confused the runways. Both LIDO Charts

 

 

The op was referring  to LROP   and  not LIDO

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The op was referring  to LROP   and  not LIDO

LIDO is the company that produces the charts that Navigraph uses. I know LROP is an airport at Bucharest.

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I believe you have confused the runways. Both LIDO Charts and Navigraph ARPT RWY.dat show 08L-28R as you say in your post. 08R and 26L is the long runway. FSX shows both runways as long but that is incorrect. See if you can get a payware airport. Maybe it will have the correct runway lengths for the airport.

Sorry to disagree with you,but the lenght of both rwy at LROP 08L-26R and 08R-26L are the same: 11.484 ft. Take a look here:

http://www.bucharestairports.ro/en/about/technical-information

 

And this is not wiki

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Then let them know, please.

Nevermind Kyle, I installed again the good old 1502 cycle wich is perfect for me and wait for 1604 to see. You are right, it's frustrating, it's not for 13 euro, but if you download something wich you pay, and specially it's not a new product, you expect to work. Honestly I prefer to pay 13 euro and have the download just with 4 cycle at year, specially for a flightsim, wich is not so important. Because let's say that an airport close One rwy for 30 days to repair it like it was at Dubai OMDB and that airac cycle report rwy closed, but in our sim the airport has still open that rwy, so wat's the point to change this while the add-on in sim didn't change? Because it's impossibil, I know. I understand to add new sid/star procedure, new freq. When they change, but not every month... IMO is a waiste of time every month and think if they even have much time to pay attention to every thing (that's why mistake happend).

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Nevermind Kyle, I installed again the good old 1502 cycle wich is perfect for me and wait for 1604 to see. You are right, it's frustrating, it's not for 13 euro, but if you download something wich you pay, and specially it's not a new product, you expect to work. Honestly I prefer to pay 13 euro and have the download just with 4 cycle at year, specially for a flightsim, wich is not so important. Because let's say that an airport close One rwy for 30 days to repair it like it was at Dubai OMDB and that airac cycle report rwy closed, but in our sim the airport has still open that rwy, so wat's the point to change this while the add-on in sim didn't change? Because it's impossibil, I know. I understand to add new sid/star procedure, new freq. When they change, but not every month... IMO is a waiste of time every month and think if they even have much time to pay attention to every thing (that's why mistake happend).

 

Report it to Navigraph and it will be checked, I suspect as the AIP supplement is still active the shortening is been applied. Look forward to seeing your post there.

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The Navigraph navdata will reflect AIP supplements and/or construction NOTAMs in most cases.  They've been working on my local KCRP rnw 13/31 for a year and now 3 months late (the construction company makes lots of money on change orders).  This is reflected in the navdata.

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Nevermind Kyle, I installed again the good old 1502 cycle wich is perfect for me and wait for 1604 to see.

 

Art, to be blunt, you're not being fair...

 

It's all your choice, and there are no true issues with it if that's what you prefer, but it seems like a lot is being made of very simple issues. On top of it, instead of reporting an issue they likely can't see because they haven't been made aware of it, you're here spending a lot more effort venting about the issue than you would've if you dropped them a line with "hey, my local airport got messed up - please have a look."

 

 

 


You are right, it's frustrating, it's not for 13 euro, but if you download something wich you pay, and specially it's not a new product, you expect to work. Honestly I prefer to pay 13 euro and have the download just with 4 cycle at year, specially for a flightsim, wich is not so important. Because let's say that an airport close One rwy for 30 days to repair it like it was at Dubai OMDB and that airac cycle report rwy closed, but in our sim the airport has still open that rwy, so wat's the point to change this while the add-on in sim didn't change? Because it's impossibil, I know. I understand to add new sid/star procedure, new freq. When they change, but not every month... IMO is a waiste of time every month and think if they even have much time to pay attention to every thing (that's why mistake happend).

 

It's not a new product, but that isn't the issue. When it comes to creating things, it's easiest to create it from the bottom up. Burn it down and start new. For programs, this is especially the case, but this is also the case even with small things like Excel files. It's a lot harder to go in and find everything that has changed, update only the changes, and then put out the new product.

 

Additionally, it's not exactly reasonable to hold this idea of having updated/realistic nav data that selectively ignores the real world condition (temporarily shortened runway distances and so on). Even if an approach drops out of the AIRAC (which, I don't think they actually do - the facility usually just NOTAMs them out), you could still fly it in Flight Sim with no real issue, because as you mentioned, it's still the same.

 

To be honest, you're getting a BARGAIN at $15 (Euro...whatever it is...the $ and Euro are pretty similar right now anyway). I can go download charts off of the FAA website and print them for free (effectively), but I pay for a service that grabs the new charts whenever there is an update available, and stores them on my iPad. That's $75ish/year for US coverage only, and it's all stuff I can easily obtain online. The AIRAC is not free (which is why Navigraph started charging in the first place - prior to that, they used the US MIL DAFIF, which had worldwide coverage), and in most real world aviation applications, data like that (worldwide) costs at the very least $900 for the year for nav data alone, depending on how you buy it, and what the use is (getting navdata into a 757, for example, comes at a much higher premium). In the case of the $900 figure, too, the update is coming from the manufacturer of the product. In the case of Navigraph, they had to come up with all of the ways to get the data into the various formats required by the various add-ons: ours are txt files, Wilco's is an Access database, and I'm sure there are many others.

 

You might think that it's a waste of time because you have a very unique view of your sim, but I find it extremely useful. As someone who flies realistic routes pulled from sites like FlightAware (day-of-flight), it's extremely important that I have the same navdata, otherwise I won't be able to do capitalize on that dispatcher's guidance effectively. Additionally, as someone who flies outside of the sim, I like the ability to fly the approaches in the sim that I fly outside of it. With differences in nav data, things can get confusing, and in extreme cases, negative transfers could occur in my real world flying. That's one of the reasons I can't buy the chart program from them: with fewer updates to their charts than in the real world, I may not be using the current procedure.

 

 

 

So...you have a very simple choice ahead of you:

Continue to vent about it here, and spin out a ton of energy for nothing; or, go over there, report it, and get it fixed.

...though, after reading the NOTAMs on your ANSP's site, I'm not convinced that you're correct here, but I can't be sure, because your ANSP's NOTAM site is very awkward.

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though, after reading the NOTAMs on your ANSP's site, I'm not convinced that you're correct here, but I can't be sure, because your ANSP's NOTAM site is very awkward.

 

Got the point Kyle. BTW the link is the official site of the LROP airport, may seem awkward, but hey... this is Romania not USA...LOL

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Got the point Kyle. BTW the link is the official site of the LROP airport, may seem awkward, but hey... this is Romania not USA...LOL

 

The official airport page is fine. I was referring to your site for NOTAMs (specifically the last item). The Leesburg Executive Airport site says the runway is 5500' long. It has been for quite some time, but for a while the runway was temporarily only 2750 - the 2750 on the one end at first, and then the 2750 on the other end - during the runway resurfacing. The airport's official website was never updated. The official source is ANSP (in our case the FAA), and along those lines, they published a NOTAM describing the change and that was about it.

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