C-130 has been released

[oldbear 33]

You've obviously never heard of IL-2 Sturmovik.

[Guest allcott]

>What would you expect from a bunch of commie russains ?>>to develop a decent product ?>>I dont think so..>>That is why i wont go near ANY russain addons such as SSW ,>captainsim and a bunch of other crap i wont even consider>payware quality.>>>Talk to you later.>It would seem you contradict yourself. How can they be `commie russains` when they are in fact offering for commercial sale a product they developed and built? That's capitalism, pure and simple? Or to make a point of spelling errors, `capitalsim`And if the point that you can't even SPELL `Russian` needs to be made, who cares what you think? Don't confuse the issue with your half-baked racist comments.The problem with CS is not that they are Russians, Ukrainians, Vulcans or Romulans, but that their business model treats their customers (and their beta testers it seems) with such disdain that you should be one of their developers. I don't care what language they speak, they insult their customers and now they're doing it again, but with a better class of insult. No support forum, no money back guarantee, no apologies for the way they treated the 707 customers who `dared` complain about the sub-standard product just PR BS. And now they are taking money off simmers, who are having to come here for support?Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to forever repeat it.What I don't get is why AVSIM is allowing these many CS threads to exist in a general-purpose forum when most other payware develoeprs have to have their own dedicated forum? Given the small issues with the latest release that are consuming so much time I can see that we need a dedicated CS forum, whether CS like it or not. Allcott

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Greetings Ben!The objections of several people (including myself) against CS is definitely not that they're a bunch of "commie Russians", because I have no issues with Russians at all, and about the alleged "commie" part I know nothing. Maybe they are, maybe not.My objection is that they used to threaten people who criticized them, by stating: "You are betrayers, and we as ex-Soviet military know how to deal with those". I wouldn't take that from ANY (ex or present) military, whether Soviet, American, or Dutch. Russian or "commie" doesn't enter into this particular equation at all.It seems that with the Herk they made a very good add-on, which pleases me. In fact ANY good piece of well-made craftsmanship pleases me, whether it's from CS or anybody else. From the reports on this forum I gather that the Herk is a satisfactory achievement, with very good quality and only minor issues.However, I will not buy it, for one simple reason only: the bunch of "betrayers and ex-Soviet military" threats. Those were, and still are, unacceptable to me.Be well!Jaap Verduijn.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Well, actually, it does make a difference to AVSIM, at least in this instance. Don't know if you know or not, but AVSIM actually ran the "official" support forum for CS for quite a while. It became so enflamed and so demanding of our time that we requested CS to create their own forum and remove the burden of enforcing our policies in their forum. I am not about to open up an "unofficial" forum just so that it can be turned into another swamp, which history tells me and the posts in this forum, it would. It's bad enough on our management team to have to monitor flame wars in this forum. Why double the time and effort opening another flame target?

[Guest allcott]

>Well, actually, it does make a difference to AVSIM, at least>in this instance. Don't know if you know or not, but AVSIM>actually ran the "official" support forum for CS for quite a>while. It became so enflamed and so demanding of our time that>we requested CS to create their own forum and remove the>burden of enforcing our policies in their forum. I am not>about to open up an "unofficial" forum just so that it can be>turned into another swamp, which history tells me and the>posts in this forum, it would. It's bad enough on our>management team to have to monitor flame wars in this forum.>Why double the time and effort opening another flame target?I see Tom. So why allow CS posts at all? A payware developer SHOULD provide a forum at THEIR OWN COST to support their products. Almost all the civilised developers do! Are you billing CS for the service, or is it allowed as part of a financial deal in the shop?I don't think the trouble is going to go away anytime soon, C-130 meeting expectations or not. There's still the problem of the useless 707, and the absence of support, and the pay-before-try policy, and the non-refundable purchase, and the simmers who need a support forum, and the threat-delivering developer. None of these things have changed because a pretty plane has been released.I'd be quite happy to see all mentions for CS barred from the forum, if it was part of the process to force CS to behave properly toward their customers. They have the best of both worlds at the moment - a free forum for the support of their payware product, but so far from their own website their flaws and arrogance could be missed by a new customer. The only downside is they don't have moderating rights. But why should Avsim bear the costs (and this forum the burden)?I don't quite see how the threads here match up to the statement above? Mods are having to monitor, there is flaming and the only problem is that previous threads, very important to simmers who may be encountering this company for the first time through the C-130, have dropped way down the list so that they are no longer obvious. Like I said, the threads are still here, we're only talking about bringing them all under one banner.Allcott

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

If I allowed myself to, I could interpret the tone of your message pretty negatively. I won't, and will just point out that by us allowing postings of CS threads here, at least the community does have some place to share issues at. Were we to cut off all postings of CS related material here, we would prevent the community from using this resource for at least some sharing of the issues, and two, make our moderating jobs even more demanding. We have tried that with other contentious releases with some developers, and all we did was create more work for us. Further, I have zero interest in whether it serves CS for us to have a forum that at least does allow a chanel for the simmer or not, or the perceived or actual benefit to them and whether or not we should be billing them. My interest IS in providing some modicum of resource for the community to discuss the subject of CS without having to strain an already strained resource; our volunteers.The issue of whether they should set up their own forum is obvious from my perspective and doesn't take the brightest bulb on the tree to figure that out. The fact that they have shut down their own forum and refuse to open another speaks volumes to me. That adds further impetus to having at least one channel of communications open for the community, and hopefully (with warts and all) this forum is providing that channel.

[Guest allcott]

That's good to hear, and I hope the naysayers who think we are on about nothing more than whinging take good note that Avsim shares the concerns of the few, not the gushing praise of the many who have yet to appreciate who they are dealing with. Warts and all.Thanks for explaining!Allcott

[Guest sbdwag]

Tom AllensworthThank you for allowing these CS threads to continue. AVSIM provides a service that cannot be found anywhere else. By allowing the free and sometimes spirited discussing to continue unabridged you allow me to make a intelligent decision on where and how to spend my hard earned money.To me this seems illogical. While many websites delete any and all threads critical of advertised products AVSIM allows those to continue, even flourish!The only explanation I can conclude is that AVSIM puts its users and readers right up there with its advertisers!Most editors would laugh at that idea!RegardsDennis Waggoner

[Guest B52Drivr]

Tom, Roger that! Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

[janosch 0]

Hi,i'm running a couple of servers and would cost me just some minutes to setup a "unofficial" captain sim forum for alle the captain sim users. If anyone of the serious here is willing to help with moderating (don't want to happen what tom described) i give it a go!best regardsjan schreiber

[taguilo 33]

Hi,As you define yourself as a current C-130 captain, maybe you can clarify this:I've seen on a captain's 2D panel screenshot in CS website, that the altimeter has its digits scroll inverted, ie from bottom to top, like:456etcWhere in most a/c I know they scroll from top to bottom like654I've checked some C-130 cockpit photos which show the way of scrolling above mentioned. (6-5-4-etc)Is this optional, a bug that has been corrected, or has not been corrected, or what?I post here cause I don't know of a forum to discuss elsewhere.I am not an owner of the product, but indeed I'm interested on it.Regards,Tom

[Guest shazapis]

Hi,do I detect a negative tone in your reply sir?Exactly what do you mean by "define your self..." etc?FYI I define my self as a 36 year old father of 2 and loving husband.Anyway,I did check CS's plane and yes, it rotates from bottom to top.No, I do not remember how it works in the real plane. I always look at the pointer for that. My best guess is it rotates the other way round.I' ll check when I get to work and let you know.I do not know if it is optional, a bug that has been corrected, one that has not been corrected or what.I, too, post here for the same reason.And, finally, I am an owner of the product and a very happy one for that matter.RegardsSpiros HazapisAthens, GreeceC130 AC (HAF)CS C130 beta tester

[taguilo 33]

Spiros,Didn't mean to be sarcastic. I intended to say "as you are a C130 pilot", thats all. When I have a tech issue, I prefer to ask people who really know the matter, either a pilot, a mechanic or someone related.Indeed it would be great if you let me know what you found on your check. And if it is the way we both guess, somebody has to tell CS to make the proper amendment...Regards,Tom

[Guest shazapis]

Tom,I'll be away 'til next Thursday for my semi-annual visit to CAE in Brussels (and propably without access to my email).As soon as I get back I'll look into it (although I am almost sure you are right...)Regards,Spiros HazapisAthens, Greece