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pegruder

2.0.0.31 ATC "Loses" me

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So lately I've noticed a few times that ATC seems to have 'lost' me and basically tells me to turn around.  Seems to happen with a variety of flight plans I've used all generated from PFPX or EFASS.  An example was today from JFK to ATL, ATC didn't assign a STAR, so after takeoff I went direct to CRI when it seemed to expect to head to DEEZ.  I tried using what I thought was a direct to waypoint option in P2A (The D with the Arrow through it), however I couldnt get P2A to see that I wanted to continue on my way (EDIT: Just reread the manual, that was user error.).  Ill have to start keeping better track of the flightplans, but there are a few occasions where ATC appears to lose me.  Usually occurs on arrival via an assigned SID.  Ill input the SID in to the FMC, update the map in P2A by loading it, but then P2A seems to want to direct me a different direction.  I'll save the FP and take some screen shots next time this happens, it is very likely I'm skipping something along my route (I'm no real world pilot).

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Hi Chris,

 

at first please be sure that you mean on departure the SID and on arrival the STAR. You mixed that in your bugreport and can't work that way.

 

Whats your config settings in the FltPln register for the first 4 items (ATC Assigns SIDs/STARs/Approaches/Gives Vectors)? This can occur some of your problems.

 

Another question is the flightplan itself. You get problems if your FMC flightplan uses airways but in P2A you use the major waypoints without the airway information.

 

Furthermore it could be a problem of different AIRACs in FMC and P2A ...

 

And at last ... normally you don't need to change the P2A flightplan and reload it with SID and STAR after ATC assigned one. Let the P2A flightplan unchanged and add the assigned SID/STAR only to your FMC. That works.

 

Regards

Helge

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Hi Chris,

 

at first please be sure that you mean on departure the SID and on arrival the STAR. You mixed that in your bugreport and can't work that way.

 

Whats your config settings in the FltPln register for the first 4 items (ATC Assigns SIDs/STARs/Approaches/Gives Vectors)? This can occur some of your problems.

 

Another question is the flightplan itself. You get problems if your FMC flightplan uses airways but in P2A you use the major waypoints without the airway information.

 

Furthermore it could be a problem of different AIRACs in FMC and P2A ...

 

And at last ... normally you don't need to change the P2A flightplan and reload it with SID and STAR after ATC assigned one. Let the P2A flightplan unchanged and add the assigned SID/STAR only to your FMC. That works.

 

Regards

Helge

 

Yes - sorry, I did flop the two.  The first 4 settings of my FltPln register are all checked except ATC Gives vectors to IF.  Last I checked the AIRAC cycles were sycned between P2A and the JAR FMC.  Ill double check again to be sure.  I haven't noticed any discrepancys there.  It just seems to not detect I've actually passed a waypoint or routing me to waypoints not in my P2A FP.

 

As for changing the P2A FP - i usually change it in P2A so the map lines up with where I am actually going.  For some reason (unless Im missing a setting) P2A doesn't seem to update the map with the SID or STAR/APPR information.  So if I start following an approach on the map itll appear that I'm off course.  Note that P2A doesn't think Im off course in this scenario - or least I dont think so.  Its more cosmetic for myself.

 

Side note: I've currently found myself in a loop enroute to ATL with "Contact center on 126.02.  When I tune this frequency I am getting "Check Frequency" as the response.

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Chris,

 

let's sort out.

Sometimes vers. 200.31 on some airports didn't assign a SID. It's a reported bug. To avoid conflicts uncheck as long the option in the config and select the SID manually according to the active runway and direction of flight.

 

STAR+approach assignment works in 200.31 without problems for me. So thats the part I'm interested on where you get lost.

 

For better understanding what's going wrong step by step:

 

1.) enter a short FPL in P2A; add the waypoints (without SID/STAR) complete manually, so that every waypoint is marked as direct (no airway information)

2.) do the same on your FMC

3.) check the weather with the wx-button right from the map for the departure airport

4.) select related to the wind direction and direction of flight for the active runway manually a SID in P2A

5.) add the SID to your FMC

6.) after entering cruise altitude/ Plan GS / descent rate ... validate and file the flightplan

7.) when you request the clearance you should get the filed SID as route from ATC

... taxi/take-off/fly until ATC instruct you "expect the STAR with XXX transition for ILS RWY ZZ with YYY transition

 

Please note that there are two different transitions. The first to entering the STAR and the second to describe the correct way from the STAREndwaypoint via the IAF to the FAF.

Did you enter both transitions correct to the FMC? If not that could cause "off-course" corrections from ATC (depending to your seetings in the ATCsettings register for AllowedHeadingVariance and AllowedCourseDeviation).

 

8.) load the assigned STAR and approach with the right transitions (both) to the P2A FPL; the map should updated immediately; didn't it?

9.) don't file the updated FPL again; (at this point I'm unsure because I don't use it in that way; I mean at least you have to validate it again or let it as it is ... If that makes problems I will check that later today).

 

In this way you don't should get lost or got "off-course corrections" from ATC (aside you get really off course).

 

Please try it and let me know how it works and where the problems are (in that case please make screenshots from P2A/FPL and also from your PFD/ND/FMC ~ thanks).

 

Helge


I forgot ... the frequency issue must Dave check. To avoid conflictsdue to this specific problem please use a different departure/destination for testing.

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One other thing that might be going on is ATC is assigning a STAR or Approach that is not the same as the one in your flight plan.  Once you have filed a flight plan, ATC maintains its own version and is not responsible for updating your GPS/P2A map.  That could be  the point of confusion.

 

As Helge says, all you must do is to input it into your FMS and fly it and P2A ATC will be happy. 

 

If you want the assigned STAR or Approach to display on the map, then you must enter it into the flight plan and Validate.  DO NOT press the FILE button as that will reset ATC and cause unpredictable problems.

 

Dave

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I don't know if I'm doing something right now but I haven't really had any issues with ATC losing me since 2.0.1.0.  At best due to some crosswinds I've had a few "off course" messages that were nearly immediately followed by "Resume own navi" messages.  

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Hi Chris,

 

without further infos hard to say whats going on. But as a first step check (raise) the values in the ATCsettings register for AllowedHeadingVariance and AllowedCourseDeviation. The values should met your type of aircraft and way of flying (e.g. manually or autopilot / GA or tube). See manual pages 68, 69.

 

The default course deviation of 1.5 NM (like manual) is right for GA but too less for airliners. Especially on tight turns with higher groundspeeds.

 

(And by the way there are differences between fly-by and fly-over waypoints. If P2A and your used aircraft (FMC/autopilot) interpret the actual waypoint in different ways you will also get "off-course" corrections with such "little" values for allowed course deviation itself your are just on course. Due to this I raised my setting to 5 NM. Too much for real live aviation but it's just a simulation and the quality of add-on aircrafts varies.

For better understanding see page 25 in the following pdf: http://www.icao.int/safety/pbn/documentation/states/japan_rnav%20training%20for%20atc.pdf )

 

Helge

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