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Jetset408

New PC Specs - your comments welcome

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Hi all

 

Its been a couple of years since i did a major system build/upgrade. Im just beginning to consider a new one! Currently i have:

- i7 4930k (not OC'd - my case runs too hot! I have even had to turn off the Intel turbo facility on an aftermarket air cooler)

- 8GB RAM (do not remember exactly what sort...)

- 780 GTX OC GPU

 

I run P3D v3.x, and exclusively use PMDG, MJC and A2A aircraft. I want it to be FSL A320 ready though!!!! My current system does OK in all but heavy weather. My other addons are GEX, UTX, AS16/ASCA, REX4 (for airport textures only now), UK2000/FSDT/FB airports. I do not have traffic enabled and I don't fly online. I have a CH Flightstick pro (ready for the Airbus!), an Eclipse yoke, and Saitek pedals.

 

So, the new system I am considering is:

  • Corsair Hydro Series H80i v2 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
  • Intel Core i7-6700K 4GHz Socket 1151 8MB L3 Cache Retail Boxed Processor
  • Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5inch SSD
  • Corsair RM750x High Performance Power Supply
  • Zotac GeForce GTX 1070 AMP Edition 8GB GDDR5 Dual-link DVI HDMI 3x DisplayPort PCI-E Graphics Card
  • NZXT H440 New Edition Case - White & Black
  • AsRock Z170 Pro4 Skylake ATX Motherboard
  • HyperX 16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4 Non-ECC CL15 1.2V Memory

So, what are peoples thoughts? Anything I could improve on without blowing the budget?

 

I would love to get the Zotac GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition 8GB GPU, but its too expensive. I have also discounted the AsRock Z170 OC Formula mobo (unnecessary) and 32GB RAM (probably overkill). A 1000W PSU is an option but again, probably overkill.

 

Thoughts from this wonderfully talented community is always welcome as I embark on this new project!

 

Thanks

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All looks good, but unless the case is too small I would go for a Noctua NH-D15 instead of the H80. Better cooling for the $.

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Hi all

 

 

- i7 4930k (not OC'd - my case runs too hot! I have even had to turn off the Intel turbo facility on an aftermarket air cooler)

 

 

 

How hot is it, out of interest? CPU temp under load? VRM temp under load? MB temp? Graphics card temp? Which case?

 

 

 

  • Corsair Hydro Series H80i v2 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
  • Intel Core i7-6700K 4GHz Socket 1151 8MB L3 Cache Retail Boxed Processor
  • Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5inch SSD
  • Corsair RM750x High Performance Power Supply
  • Zotac GeForce GTX 1070 AMP Edition 8GB GDDR5 Dual-link DVI HDMI 3x DisplayPort PCI-E Graphics Card
  • NZXT H440 New Edition Case - White & Black
  • AsRock Z170 Pro4 Skylake ATX Motherboard
  • HyperX 16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4 Non-ECC CL15 1.2V Memory
So, what are peoples thoughts? Anything I could improve on without blowing the budget?

 

I would love to get the Zotac GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition 8GB GPU, but its too expensive. I have also discounted the AsRock Z170 OC Formula mobo (unnecessary) and 32GB RAM (probably overkill). A 1000W PSU is an option but again, probably overkill.

 

 

NZXT H440 New Edition Case - White & Black

 

Not a bad case. One thing to consider is that there's only one intake vent at the front/rear, so I'm wondering if front to back airflow is a little compromised. So do check temp results in the reviews. My Lian Li X510 for example is a similar design but has large intake vents on both sides, front and rear.

 

Corsair Hydro Series H80i v2 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler

 

Don't restrict yourself with just an H80. Your NZXT case has the facility to fit a 280 radiator on top, so a Corsiar H110 is an option which is cooler and quieter.

 

If you would like to consider air cooling [my preference] then the Noctua NH-D15S is the way to go. 

 

 

Zotac GeForce GTX 1070 AMP Edition 8GB GDDR5 Dual-link DVI HDMI 3x DisplayPort PCI-E Graphics Card

 

 

Would highly recommend EVGA!

 

 

AsRock Z170 Pro4 Skylake ATX Motherboard

 

 

Would highly recommend Asus Z170-A. Check the specs, make sure it has everything you need.

 

 

HyperX 16GB (2x8GB) 2666MHz DDR4 Non-ECC CL15 1.2V Memory

 

 

 

GSkill Ripjaw V 3200 MHz, arguably one of the best, if not the best for Skylake.

 

 

I would love to get the Zotac GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition 8GB GPU, but its too expensive.

 

 

​Founders edition, or in other words the reference design, isn't my preference. I prefer the non-reference designs with upgraded cooling and components. 

 

 

1000W PSU is an option but again, probably overkill.

 

 

​It is overkill unless you intend to go SLI some time in the future. Personally I prefer multi-rail PSU's, but there's no issue with a single high capacity rail, except in rare failure events.

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Martin

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to give me your valuable insights.

 

 

 


How hot is it, out of interest? CPU temp under load? VRM temp under load? MB temp? Graphics card temp? Which case?

 

Realise I made a mistake - its a 4790K processor. It peaks at 90 degrees Celsius with turbo on and HT. Its on an air cooler but the case has very poor circulation. Its a NZXT Hush case, tucked under a desk. I dont have the other temps to hand.

 

Based on your other comments:

  • GPU - I have found a well priced EVGA 1070GTX although its another Founders edition. I will consider this over the Zotac.
  • PSU - I now realise that my existing 5 year old 650W HX one will probably do just fine so I will stick with that rather than replace
  • MOBO - funnily enough I have always had Asus -A models but got shipped two faulty ones last time round so was considering AsRock instead. I may go for the OC edition with the saving I make from the PSU and sticking with my existing SSD and platter drive
  • Cooler - ok, H110 it is. Thanks!

 

Thanks once again!

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Realise I made a mistake - its a 4790K processor. It peaks at 90 degrees Celsius with turbo on and HT. Its on an air cooler but the case has very poor circulation. Its a NZXT Hush case, tucked under a desk. I dont have the other temps to hand.

 

 

 

That's still very hot for no overclock, even for a case with bad airflow, even for the stock Intel cooler. Might be other issues at play. Cooler mounting, TIM application, CPU fan RPM etc... all should be checked.

 

Could be that the Die/IHS interface on your chip is defective, it does happen occasionally... delidding is then the fix.

 

I'm sure you're excitedly committed to a new PC, but I thought I'd mention it in case your wish to keep your old rig as a second PC. Ypu should also bear in mind that in single core performance, the difference between a 6700K and a 4790K is 6%. Plus any increase courtesy of your graphics card of course.

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Cooler - ok, H110 it is. Thanks!

 

 

 

Depends on your preference, AIO or big air. Big air for me, but if I were going for AIO, the H110i would probably be the boy.

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That's still very hot for no overclock, even for a case with bad airflow, even for the stock Intel cooler. Might be other issues at play. Cooler mounting, TIM application, CPU fan RPM etc... all should be checked.

 

Agreed - a year or so ago I spent a lot of time re-setting it, changing paste, cleaning and re-seating the cooler etc... Something does seem amiss with it. It has always run hot. I know the case is part (if not all) of the problem - it is SO tight, and the case inflow fan is half blocked by the case front, and then blocked inside by racked hard drives. The H212+ cooler i have got is then a very tight fit. Plus the 780GTX is kicking out hot air into the case, and there is only one rear extractor fan. The case is a nightmare!

 

So I want a new case, cooler, and to be sure, a new processor. That is the key reason I'm looking to build a new system. I think there are enough changes needed to warrant my once every 5 year or so new build. Appreciate the advice though - the marginal performance increase is noted. Although bear in mind I will be going from stock 4790K to hopefully 4.6 on the 6700K!!!!

 

 

Depends on your preference, AIO or big air. Big air for me

 

May I ask - what drives your preference? The water set ups seem so neat and tidy when the radiator and fans sit at the top of the case

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In my opinion you won't see much in the way of gains from the cpu switch. Why not get a new case/cooling setup and overclock. Then with the money saved go for a 1080. More perf increase than going from your current cpu to a 1070 and 6700k.

 

I'm with martin on the water cooling. It's great, full custom is the dogs danglies.

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In my opinion you won't see much in the way of gains from the cpu switch.

 

 

 

We agree with you, see previous posts above! Already addressed.

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Why not get a new case/cooling setup and overclock. Then with the money saved go for a 1080. More perf increase than going from your current cpu to a 1070 and 6700k.

 

Now you have me thinking - many thanks for your suggestion. Food for thought!!!!!!

 

Thank you

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Now you have me thinking - many thanks for your suggestion. Food for thought!!!!!!

 

Thank you

 

 

 

In single core performance, as I mentioned, plus 6%. Multi-core 9%, plus  any graphics card upgrade. But then Skylake is not just about IPC. Faster higher density RAM. NFC, USB 3.1, M.2, U.2 and more.

 

Something to think about Rich.  :smile: Purely on performance, not a cost effective upgrade, but then cost effectiveness is not the only reason we build a new rig... sometimes the bug just bites.

 

 

 

I'm with martin on the water cooling. It's great, full custom is the dogs danglies.

 

 

 

No, I don't favour water cooling. I favour the NH-D15S, for numerous reasons. However, after asking the OP if he prefers big air or AIO he favoured AIO, hence the H110i. 

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May I ask - what drives your preference? The water set ups seem so neat and tidy when the radiator and fans sit at the top of the case

 

 

 

 

First, I have no issues with others favouring all in one water coolers, the market is replete with them and it's something we enthusiasts need to decide. The better AIO coolers, like the Corsiar H110, do cool well and reassembly quietly, although I understand many replace the Corsair fans with quieter Noctua fans.

 

However, AIO coolers do have drawbacks!...

 

Disadvantages 

 

A pump with a limited lifespan, which can become noisy with age and ultimately fail. 5 - 6 year guarantee is provided.

 

AIO coolers can leak, it's somewhat uncommon, but is still happening. And when it does other components like graphics cards and motherboards can be damaged, necessitating negotiations with the manufacturer for compensation for the damaged hardware. This usually involves taking photographs of the damaged hardware and submitting them for inspection. Protracted delay while you wait for the replacement hardware.

 

Noise. Some of the best AIO coolers are reasonably quiet [H110i] however, some, like the Kraken X61 utilise high RPM noisy fans, In other words the cooling performance isn't just a function of the pump efficiency and radiator surface area but also courtesy of high fan RPM. Thus, fit the same high RPM fans on the best air cooler, the D15, and you will find big air equal or better in terms of cooling.

 

Heat ingestion. You  have two choices with an AIO water cooler. 1. air entering from outside of the case through the rad and into the case. Thus, outside air cooling the CPU, so lower CPU temp but all that warm rad air entering the case, thus higher case temp. 2. Fans oriented so that warm case air is blown through the rad to the outside. Thus higher CPU temp but cooler inside your case. Big air coolers also dissipate heat inside the case of course. However, with a big tower air cooler the rear cooler fan is very close to the rear case fan, thus, less heat than you might imagine is dissipated into the case.

 

AIO Advantages.

 

Asthetics. Some find AIO coolers more aesthetically pleasing. 

 

Direct airflow. Without a sizeable air cooler, airflow through the case, from front to back, is improved. However, the best air coolers have an over sized centrally mounted fan that blasts a prodigious amount of air across the motherboard, cooling VRM's and other motherboard components nicely.

 

Cooling.  Some of the better AIO coolers, the ones that don't cheat by fitting high RPM noisy fans, do cool somewhat better than the best air cooler, the NH-D15. However, it's not by much, a few degrees, see review below. So if we imagine that our somewhat cooler CPU can be therefore overcloced higher, what does that mean? Actually it means very little. 100 or 200 MHz extra overclock is meaningless in terms of frame rate in the sim or games. Overclocking in a well balanced system is linear. If you overclock by an extra 5% you get 5% higher frame rate. Thus at 30 frames per second you are looking at a mere 1 to 2 frames per send.

 

 

So for me it's an easy decisions. I ignore the marketing tactics that are pushing us all in the direction of AIO these days and instead adopt the best air cooler on the planet, namely the NH-D15S. Because it cools fanatically well, it cools VERY quietly, can't leak, has no pump to fail or become noisy, has an unlimited lifespan [in fact my D15 was on three builds] and is usually cheaper than the best AIO coolers.

 

These are just my thoughts, why I favour air cooling, others may think differently and that's fine. And indeed, If I've missed something I welcome the contributions of others.

 

Super quiet NH-D15: 69.33 degrees.

 

Noisy Kraken X61: 67.33 degrees.

 

Now put the Kraken fans on the D15 and tell me which cooler wins!

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7301/noctua-nh-d15s-style-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

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Well whatever, custom watercooling is awesome. once you have bought all the bits, they will only need slight tweaks for future builds. so in the end, its not bad value at all. Those more technically minded, like to have full control of their cooling solution.

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Now you have me thinking - many thanks for your suggestion. Food for thought!!!!!!

 

Rich,

I just did basically this.

We have similar base systems

I had a  i7 4770K 16MB of Mushkin Ram MSI Z87 MPower Max MB and a GTX 780OC'd  My case is a Cooler Master HAF932 with a Corsair H100 about the only difference is I was able to OC to 4.2ghz easily can go higher but 4.2 is rock steady and could not tell much of a difference between it and 4.5ghz so for longevity I run it where I have it.

 

Thought about a new Skylake build myself but before  went that route I bought a 1080 GTX EVGA FTW DT card. It was actually a bit of an impulse buy and I thought I would suffer a bit of buyers remorse shelling out over $600 on a graphics card but, I've been pleasantly surprised.

 

I run P3dv3.4 with basically all the goodies Orbx Global  LC Vector AS16 +ASCA GSX Payware Airports and Aircraft  from about all the big names.  Most the time I would struggle around the airports running anywhere into the teens to mid 20's fps depending a lot on the weather.  The 1080gtx has allowed me to bump several sliders to the right a notch in P3d and AS16 (keeping expectations in check). I check my FSUIPC Log to measure VAS usage and FPS over time and what I have found is my average FPS has went up and my sim is noticeably smoother even with the increase in settings.  Now  after the 1080GTX I rarely see fps drop under 20 (18 was the lowest after many flights and varying conditions) and my average is in the mid 40's. That's basically night and day and would never have thought it possible if I was not experiencing it myself. 

 

I'm not FPS obsessed and I did not do any repeatable benchmarks so my findings are anything but scientific but that said, let there be no doubt that card alone has extended the life-cycle of my current system at least another 12-18 months so I feel it was money well spent. 

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Well whatever, custom watercooling is awesome. once you have bought all the bits, they will only need slight tweaks for future builds. so in the end, its not bad value at all. Those more technically minded, like to have full control of their cooling solution.

 

 

We aren't debating  custom loops! We're debating All In One closed loop coolers!

 

But yes, a custom loop is indeed "awesome" as you put it. But that depends how you define awesome. In terms of frame rate in games the gains from the additional overclock aren't that huge, for the reasons previously mentioned.

 

The risks associated with custom loops are greater than the risks posed by a AIO coolers. Simply because there are usually far more points of failure, multiple hoses, barbs blocks etc. And then of course there's regular maintenance required, and if a component cooled by the loop should need replacing, a graphics  card for example, then the entire system needs to be drained.

 

However, those that build a custom loop,  like me some years ago, accept the additional maintenance and that leaks happen from time to time. And indeed, with a custom loop any damage to other components isn't covered by any warranty.  At least that's one advantage of an AIO.

 

Air coolers don't leak! Full stop! 

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No they don't leak, but they are not optimal, if as i said, you are technically minded, you don't mind a few hours of leak checking for either a silent or very effective cooling setup. Recently replaced my water cooled card with an air cooled one, can change to a water block at some point but its quiet enough, took 20 mins to drain, reroute and refill the loop.

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No they don't leak, but they are not optimal, if as i said, you are technically minded, you don't mind a few hours of leak checking for either a silent or very effective cooling setup.

 

 

 

Correct, air coolers aren't "optimal" in terms of CPU temp, indeed, a custom loop does generate the lowest CPU temp.

 

However, and I think you must have missed this in my previous posts...

 

The lower temperature courtesy of a custom loop, in practical terms, isn't required. As I pointed out previously, in a well balanced system, gains from an overclock are linear. Thus, if a custom loop, as a result of greater thermal headroom, allows us to overclock a few hundred megahertz more, that's minimal in terms of percentage. For example, an extra 200 MHz overclock, lets say 4.6 to 4.8 GHz, is slightly less than 5%. So at 30 frames per second, that's a minuscule 1.5 frames per second!

 

Put another way, that's a highly expensive, high maintenance cooling system that can on occasion leak and damage other hardware.... that ultimately results in a minuscule, additional 1.5 frames per second. Are we desperate for 1.5 frames per second? No, of course not!

 

Now if we look at, for example, my NH-D15S, that overclocks my 6700K to 4.6 GHz [it will handle a higher overclock] in accordance with the above scenario, I lose only 1.5 frames per second, but have a cooler that has no pump to fail, can't leak, is super quiet and cools as much as I require. It's also a lot cheaper.

 

 

The bottom line is that our cooling solutions should be as quiet as we require, reasonable cost, and importantly.... cool to the degree we require! Excessive cooling beyond what we require, by definition, isn't required!

 

 

 

 

you are technically minded, you don't mind a few hours of leak checking

 

 

 

A mute point, if we don't require a full blown custom loop, because the minuscule increase in frame rate would be barely noticed.

 

But yes, if an individual decided to build a custom loop, as I did some years back, then they would accept the possibility of leaks, accept the requirement for maintenance. But I built that custom loop, because it looked fantastic and for the challenge and sense of achievement... I didn't build it because I expected it to ultimately result in a huge increase in frame rate.

 

Custom loops look fantastic, stunning, and I have no issue with anyone building a custom loop, go for it... but facts are facts, and in terms of higher frame rate in our applications, which of course is our ultimate objective, the gain is minimal.

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A lot of people want that extra %, most of the fun for me (I can only speak for myself) is getting the best performance i can from my pc. Watercooling gets you there

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A lot of people want that extra %, most of the fun for me (I can only speak for myself) is getting the best performance i can from my pc. Watercooling gets you there

 

 

They do, for FUN... as I said, I have no issue with that. Precisely why I built a custom loop.... as I said.

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An update:

 

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I went ahead and ordered, built and have running my new system:

 

6700K (already OC'd to 4.6Ghz - i went straight in at a 1.28v target and it is stable as a rock!!! I will try lowering it soon)

16Gb 2666Mhz RAM

Zotac nvidia 1070 GTX GPU - Zotac was £60 cheaper than the EVGA equivalent!

NZXT H440 case - looks awesome!

Corsair H115i AIO water cooler

Asrock Z170 OC Formula

 

It went together very well, and worked first time! Only issue was the CPU hitting 90'C at stock fq under a load test using AIDA64. I diagnosed the reason being AIDA interfering with the Corsair Link software which stopped the AIO water cooler fans spooling up!!!!

 

It is now running at 4.6Ghz with temps around mid 60'Cs to mid 70'Cs, with very intermittent spikes to 80'C-82'C. Im on about 1.28v and may seek to lower it soon.

 

Im chuffed with the system! Had a very quick check of P3D and it was smoooooooooooooth. Excited to test it out properly soon!

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Great news Rich!  :smile:

 

It is now running at 4.6Ghz with temps around mid 60'Cs to mid 70'Cs, with very intermittent spikes to 80'C-82'C. Im on about 1.28v and may seek to lower it soon.

 

 

 

Is that adaptive voltage or manual voltage? And running what, a stress test, the sim? 

 

That's a low voltage if manual. Will be higher under load of course if adaptive. Best to check the voltage while running a stress test, temp too. If you haven't of course.

 

Roughly what ambient temp?

 

 

 

I'm at 4.6 GHz too, and see 75 degrees max while running RealBench. Voltage is 1.34 stable. But of course you should always add a little extra as a safety margin so I run at 1.36.

 

Considering I'm using a higher voltage, and the ambient was high during my tests, it seems I'm doing well compared to your H110.

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I feel more comfortable with up to 1.47v if the CPU 68-72C than 1.3v +75C heat kill more than voltage.

Keep in mind that the Skylake start to throttling at +82-83C

Safe temp 70-73C over that the risk for degradinng is much bigger.

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