The thing that always put me off PS1 was the total lack of visual immersion in the sim.Great for learning engine starts and drills for failures but for flying it just didnt do it for me.Driving real aeroplanes is a "seeing" event that PS1 doesnt have which is its major drawback.Great systems simulator indeed and an excellent information package for those with an interest in the 400.With the update from PMDG i'd say the 400 will be pretty good for the price and also an excellent 400 study sim.Take your pick they are both excellent and have respective goals but right now as the better simulator of flight i'd say the PMDG one has it simply because it gives you more of a replication of flight simply due to the fact it has visuals.IE Try flying a circling approach in PS1.Darren

>IE Try flying a circling approach in PS1.>DarrenDarren,Take a drive over to Chipping Norton - http://www.hyway.com.au/stores.htm#NSW Its amazing what is house in that building :)

>>and I hate panning around to find things>>>>>But that's the way it is in real life, right? Not everything>is laid out infront of you. That's why I love the VC, is gives>me a real perspective, and makes me look in the direction of>where the button or switch is, just like real life.>>But good points all around, I guess the VC or to not VC debate>will continue forever. If you are lucky enough to have a nice>computer, it's an experience I will enjoy and never go back to>the 2d panel.>>>>It is the way it is in real life, and I live by the VC in flight sim- that being said the problem with the VC in flight sim is that without have the actually switches, and having to use your mouse, you find yourself concentrating on tasks that in real life are second nature.Simply put, the VC simulates a person who has his one and only arm attached directly to his nose.In real life, I can lean down and switch fuel tanks and keep flying straight and level without even thinking about it. Or dial in the NAV and OBSs without looking up to see I'm in a 30 bank accidentally. I can look one direction, and still perform tasks with both my hands.VCs are extremely cool, but they make real procedure practice very difficult because you spend time doing things that you shouldn't have to. Don't get me wrong- the 2D pit suffers from the same mouse problem, but to a lesser extent.What I've relegated myself to is flying from the VC, but the hatswitch on my CH yoke "snaps" to views just like the 2D pit. And with my mini pit to be able to perform tasks without the mouse, it will really allow me to concentrate on things I need to.lI definately find the slight movement of the VC during maneuvers gives me feedback that the 2D pit totally lacks.*One gripe about Flight Sim if I may- Why can't anybody make "draggable" knobs? How annoying is it to click-click-click your way to the proper frequency. Especially in a VC with Active Camera, you sometimes find yourself chasing the knob around. I would LOVE to just click and hold, then drag the frequency.And as for "flying" PS1- I do agree that it is tough without visual cues, however in real life most of the flight can be performed under the hood. There are people who do circling approaches- I admit they are hard, but I'm sure with enough practice it would become second nature. There are some videos on the PS1 site of people doing them. I definately find the graphics in flight sim, and complete lack of physical feedback (in any sim) make you a daredevil. I can land a 747 in Flight Sim on a slick runway with a 30 kt crosswind while sucking down a beer, while in real life I need a shower after a few touch and gos in a Warrior. So sometimes I think the visuals give you a false sense of security: I can drop it on the runway even if it's not pretty. If the published approach gets too difficult, just pan around, fly a short final and land anyway- no FAA, airline management, or first officer is going to yell at you: since they don't exist, any landing you walk away from is perfect, no matter how dangerous or poor."The worst mistake is the one that goes unrecognized, uncorrected, and unapologized for."

>sim is that without have the actually switches, and having to>use your mouse, you find yourself concentrating on tasks that>in real life are second nature.well, it very much depends how you do it. Using VC can be a second nature too and your mosue can be seen as extension of your hand. It all depends whether you invest some minimal amount time in developing profficiency in using VC. And the rest is in your "head" - whether your brain can adjust and give you the right illusion. Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg

There are a few off the top of my head. The Carenado 182 has a cowl flap lever that you can drag up or down. Pretty cool. But yeah the VC is limited, but I can get over that for the real life feeling I get piloting the airplane from it.

>>*One gripe about Flight Sim if I may- Why can't anybody make >>"draggable" knobs? How annoying is it to click-click-click your way to >>the proper frequency. Especially in a VC with Active Camera, you >>sometimes find yourself chasing the knob around. I would LOVE to just >>click and hold, then drag the frequency.Agreed!! Download the ELITE demo and see how the UI really should be done. I suspect part of the problem is that you need consistent and high framerates to get a smooth and predictable movement. All the drag controls I have seen in FS forget they are being draged after a frame stutter. Pain in the a$$.

>>>If you just want to play 744 captain, and have no aspirations to fly >>>for real, then the PMDG will probably be the ultimate.IMO Both are so close unless you 'are' training for real the choice whether to use PS1 or PMDG Should not be based on whether you want to fly 747's one day or not.I seriously hope 2D panels last forever Why I HATE Vc's!1. Frame Rates2. Gauge Refresh Rates3. 'Moving, Panning etc..'

> ... and I hate panning around to find things ...PLEASE run and get TrackIR with the vector expansion - you will change your mind :-)Ray Keattch