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Guest allcott

Do sites really "read" readme files?

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Recently, I uploaded Autoland 2004 exclusive to Avsim. Today I discovered FSFreeware is hosting my program, with the original readme stating it's exclusive to Avsim. Here's the text of the letter I wrote in response. Do you think it's fair?Tks, John________________________Just want to contact you regarding Autoland 2004. As noted in my readme.txt, I have uploaded Autoland 2004 exclusive to Avsim. Any site hosting it other than Avsim is required to seek my permission, and FSFreeware has not. I am curious if you noted this in the readme.txt prior to hosting Autoland 2004 on your site? Until you formally ask for permission, I ask that you please remove my program from your site. I may consider granting permission for your site to host Autoland 2004, but I am concerned that my copyright and legal right to determine where my software is hosted was ignored.I have only waived fees for users who have downloaded from Avsim.com and sites I've authorized, and currently none have applied for permission. As of this writing, I show you have 266 downloads from your site of my program, as shown in the attached .jpgRegards,John CillisAuthor, Autoland 2004

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John wrote to me personally - and his program was prompted removed from FSfreeware without any delay - the whole matter must have taken less than 10 minutes or so.so MR Ken - you are not dealing with a scum - as you try to make others believe ! and John does not need to hold his breath either.to be honest Ken - i think sometimes you are wasting your great talent - and get locked into a nutshell.with all respect to avsim.RaimondoFSfreeware

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To also reply to this, I received a very polite response from Raimondo almost immediately. I returned an email granting permission for FSFreeware to continue hosting the program.It is heartening to see some who do respect our wishes....Good job Raimondo! -John

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Dear John;thanks first for autoland - that was ommitted in the email - and ofcourse - thanks for granting permission - to freely distribute autoland - - all the luck for your projects be with you and with Ken - we want the best wishes for all - i'm sure we all do agree -.raimondo

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I wouldn't worry about it Raimondo, it's the likes of FSPlantpot we really could do without.But tell me, are the majority of files available in FSFreeware free and leeched from other websites? Allcott

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Dear Allcott;hi - fsfreeware is a free site - nothing to stop you downloads files if you like.But tell me, are the majority of files available in FSFreeware free and leeched from other websites?in contrast to what many believe - there is more in flightsimulation than that - i've been around for quite a while now - and come to know - many many simmers and many many authors - many of the files are uploaded by authors - some other - authors are friends - and give me green light to distribute files - but i'm honest if i see a file wich is useful and of benefit for many other simmers outh there - i take it - - but always avoid files wich clearly state - please do not distribute - i simply have no interest on that.Even said so - in these days i rather spend my time working on scenery - than distribute freeware - - wich give me simply - nothing ! and very often less than nothing - but i feel for those simmers that quite often email me - and ask - - Hey where are the new files??? hurry hurry !! .netherless my believe is and has always been - that many simmers started from a site somewhere on the web - including myself - i remember very well that Arkia fokker i've downloaded for the first time on a israel site - back in 95 - freeware site are very important for the substain and renewal of flight simulation - not only - new simmers learn and became appassionate - but also they contribute to keep the whole ecosystem going - new freeware designer are born - and also payware designers will develop - to bring you always new and refreshed ideas - the successes of flight simulation and indeed the richness of the sim community is not only tight to one site only - but to all the sites wich are online - available to newcomers and regular simmers.surely i'll not do freeware site forever - as said above - design paid me much more than distributing freeware files for nothing.ray

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For some reason I thought of FSPlan.. instead...should have thought before typing.I will blame it on too much pumpkin pie.Please accept my apologies.

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Howdy,before we get too teary-eyed here...There is a very obvious economic advantage for a website owner to "leech" freeware files: the bigger (more complete) the library, the less likely "roaming" FS users are to search elsewhere. This, in turn, attracts advertisers and makes it more likely that a user gets "lured" to sign up for the commercial parts of the file library. In other words, us freeware authors provide the bread crumbs that lead Hansel and Gretel to the witche's house ;-)I don't think there is anything particularly sinister about this strategy as long as the webmasters don't host files against an author's will. After all, freeware providers don't have to pay for the bandwidth and public recognition. Nevertheless, I don't particularly like the I-take-it-you-complain-if-you-don't-want-me-to ethic of some website hosts, and it's not just FSPlanet.Cheers, Holger

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About a year ago, FsFreeware promptly removed a file I requested it to, upon recieving my request. He is a great guy, who honors all designer's requests, and runs a great website I visit often for good downloads :)

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There is something unsavory about sites that take files without asking. Raimondo's FSFreeware is not the only one to do this by any means.Yet, Raimondo has contributed a lot to the community, not principally through hosting these files, but also and mainly by his very numerous free contributions of all types of files that he has created himself. He has always been at the forefront of scenery creation and many have benefited from his work and his enthusiasm.Each freeware author must decide for himself if he will turn a blind eye to sites like Raimondo's that do contribute to our hobby without blatant abuses, unlike some others that I shall not mention for fear of Spanish solicitors (but, I mean you, Ferdy!)Best regards.Luis

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Hi all -I believe that everybody should contribute to freeware - it is very important - payware or shareware - or whateverware - now and than - should release a even small freeware package - but this is what i believe -what Holger point out - is true - but not completely the case - the major site as avsim and flightsim - is where all the ads revenue goes - other sites - get out of ads very little or nothing at all - as indeed fsfreeware - wich is on the 0 income from sponsors - and very likely will always be on 0 income from sponsors - therefore i pay for it - from the income i generate from scenery design - than take away taxes i pay - maintenance for the 4 servers - - and all on top of my daily life: i work also outside home - and have 2 very young children to look after - really - - give me a break!!raimondo

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The reason I originaly asked was I was trying to decide whether to add FSFreeware to my list of sites to visit frequently. If the files there also can be found on the sites I already visit then it's pretty pointless. And the last time I was there I remember being insulted by a site called `freeware` that didn't seem to have anything free to offer.Now, the answer to your dilemma is not to get piqued at people who question your motives, but to host files that AREN'T hosted anywhere else. That promotes site traffic, these are the visitors you can sell to. Of course, double standards aside, you wouldn't then be in a position to complain if other sites leeched from you, "sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" as the expression goes.I visited your site for the first time in ages because of this thread and found a whole heap of payware files that might be of interest - the Roads series, which I have not heard of or heard mention of on any other website or forum. Rather than complain about Avsim hogging all the revenue, perhaps you should be advertising on this site? `Going where the money is`, and all that. No doubt Avsim sales will be in touch shortly!Sorry Raimondo but you cannot wear two hats. As a commercial developer you are not in a position to criticise about cost. You're in the `business` of flight sim. How much of a business is nothing to do with us. Our rights as customers do not depend on your profit margin. If it costs that much, and makes so little, don't do it. That's what business is all about. Only freeware authors and developers get sympathy when they complain about bandwidth costs and site traffic. You don't need a break, you just need a better business model, marketing and advertising - and an attitude beyond `poor starving simmer with a family to feed`. It makes no difference to me whether you have children or not, only whether your products are good value and do what they are supposed to. Now could you point me to some reviews of your roads and water series?Allcott

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> but to host files that AREN'T hosted anywhere else. Perhaps the only way that could be done, is to refuse to allow any files HE creates to be hosted elsewhere. From what Ive seen in decades, is that you can find all the same files, anywhere there is room for them. If he did that, then it would be more difficult to get his files which I find hosted on flightsim.com, et. al... Maybe instead of criticizing others, you could appreciate what they create. From my experience of operating a public site for 20 years, advertising paid for less than 10% of the cost, donations for less than 1%, and few appreciated what was done, the majority complained because there was not more available FREE. Having attended conventions of 800 or so who supported public sites, found the same applied to all of them. The only profit came, from their day jobs. Bob

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Dear Allcot;I can see your point - and i'm not criticise about costs - really - i know well this job what does it mean - after many years of doing it - Now, the answer to your dilemma is not to get piqued at people who question your motives, but to host files that AREN'T hosted anywhere else. That promotes site traffic, these are the visitors you can sell to. Of course, double standards aside, you wouldn't then be in a position to complain if other sites leeched from you, "sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" as the expression goes.please do not touch this argument !! but let me say - many files at fsfreeware are unique - - and everybody knows - how much i keep my mind open regarding distribution of the work i do and in general of freeware files - I visited your site for the first time in ages because of this thread and found a whole heap of payware files that might be of interest - the Roads series, which I have not heard of or heard mention of on any other website or forum. Rather than complain about Avsim hogging all the revenue, perhaps you should be advertising on this site? `Going where the money is`, and all that. No doubt Avsim sales will be in touch shortly!I think - perhaps i did not explain myself clearly - to be honest - i never press for ads revenue - or look for it anwywhere - even i have very influents friend here in uk - wich are fs related - i'm perfectly happy - avsim and flightsim - get all that - they needed it to run this kind of things - and i'm the first to understand - as costs to distribute free files is high - i'm very happy to continue with what i do - to get on - Sorry Raimondo but you cannot wear two hats. As a commercial developer you are not in a position to criticise about cost. You're in the `business` of flight sim. How much of a business is nothing to do with us. Our rights as customers do not depend on your profit margin. If it costs that much, and makes so little, don't do it. That's what business is all about.yep - fully agree - but is not about business - - is about the hard work and sacrifice this business requires - i was refer too - that is why when i buy and addon - or download an addon - or when i do an addon - i really appreciate - and enjoy - business and commerce is for me after that.Only freeware authors and developers get sympathy when they complain about bandwidth costs and site traffic. You don't need a break, you just need a better business model, marketing and advertising - and an attitude beyond `poor starving simmer with a family to feed`. It makes no difference to me whether you have children or not, only whether your products are good value and do what they are supposed to.well - i think a holliday would be nice ! and sure i agree - no difference for customers - products must do what they suppose to do!! i full understand this - and agree.You don't need a break, you just need a better business model, marketing and advertising.nope !! marketing and ads - has very little to do with addons - - i can tell you - very few simmers are looking at banners - or listen to marketing or follow marketing whatever marketing is - - you come to know by simmers by many years of being around - by many years of producing addons - by many years of being there to help simmers when they ask you to help - - this is worth 100000 times than any kind of banner or marketing - and above all - is to produce original products - wich is not a easy thing to achieve in these days - as competition is strong from both site - freeware and commercial - Now could you point me to some reviews of your roads and water series?i would if i could - but there is no reviews - as far as i know - on the net available - though simflight.nl has copies of the benelux packages - and i expect a imminent review to be published - - ray

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