<>As is true with so many training aircraft, the ones you flew in must have been out of rig.An aircraft could not become certified with that sort of inherent instability.Regards,Jim

>The problem is not limited to just C-172 aircraft. I noticed>that even my jet tends to continually pull to the left on>takeoff roll. >>While I could chalk it up a P-factor or torque or spiraling>slipstream on my Cessna and other prop driven aircraft, why my>jet pulls left on high realism is beyond me.>This issue came up years ago, and probably even with FS2002. My jets wouldn't travel five feet off centerline if that much. Same with counter-rotating props. But, then I know of other people who have the problem. L.Adamson

My post above is not refering to the default C172 calibration but for all planes you have added to your aircraft folder.MSN saysTechnically speaking, a flight in Flight Simulator is "a saved situation." Once saved, you can use load it again and again, starting with exactly the same situation each time without having to set things up manually. Flights include many saved parameters both on startup and a saved situation, including:1. Aircraft 2. Aircraft position 3. Positions of controls and instruments 4. Time and season 5. Weather conditions Flights can start on the ground at an airport, or in the air.Now look at no.3If your startup default plane is not the default startup C172 at KSEA in FS9 then the Position of the Control Axis can be out of calibration (usually rudder or aileron trim). That also means any plane you choose to fly after FS9 is running can also be affected.If you allow FS9 to startup with the default C172 at KSEA this has the calibration of no. 3 above set correctly including the Mag Compass that so many complain about.Once the C172 is loaded NOW select from the aircraft menu the plane that is giving you problems. The selected plane will use the neutral control settings that were used when you started FS9 for the C172.Go fly your favorite plane and see if all 3 axis remain neutral. This helps to determine if the problem is your airplane, your settings or a model that might need more work from the designer. Any 3rd party plane you use as the default startup plane should always be selected from the default startup C172 before you save it as your new FS9 default startup plane.

I've never flown a real airplane that when trimmed in pitch but not in roll that wouldn't end up in a left spiral dive if left hands off for more than a few seconds. All that needs to be done is hold a small amount of right rudder pressure when you need to be hands off for some task or other (usually, navigation related).

>I have discovered that my planes enters an increasing left>bank if controllers left alone at neutral, and with rudder and>aileron trim set to zero and balanced loading.>In the realism settings I see that this could be realistic and>is affected by torque and p factor. But I have the impression>that this is more pronounced than it has been before. It sounds like your JS gives some aileron deflection at neutral. I have this problem with an old Sidewinder and can't keep it calibrated to zero output at neutral. Increasing the 'null' zone(s) in the FS Controller menu will help. Disengauge the JS (Ctl-k does it for me) then hit num pad '5'. That will center the ailerons. I bet you AC will then fly level. P-Factor is only significant at high angles of attack, and FS9 has no 'Torque' effect (regardless of what any slider implies). Ron

As for certification, it seems that there's "what is supposed to happen", and then there is "what does happen". These were, I believe, 1960s model 150/152s. And the company did not have the most reputable maintenance department.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

> P-Factor is only significant at high angles of attack, and>FS9 has no 'Torque' effect (regardless of what any slider>implies). We'll go for the prop "slipstream" effect then. Which some models do quite well. But you're right. I don't remember a high powered simulated model doing a torque roll to inverted, such as a P-51 might do, if suddenly full throttled on a low airspeed go-around. I seen a Reno racing Yak, do exactly that, at a local summer airshow, when the engine quit, but suddendly went to full throttle during a re-start. He rolled inverted due to torque, rolled it upright again, then had to crash land in the dirt after the engine stalled again, and too many people were around the runway area. L.Adamson

>> P-Factor is only significant at high angles of attack,>and FS9 has no 'Torque' effect (regardless of what any slider>>implies). >We'll go for the prop "slipstream" effect then. Which some>models do quite well. MS Airheads lost the 'prop effect on horiz stab' in FS9. They lost the 'prop effect on vertical stab' in FS8. They finally got p-factor working in FS9, but the above prop effects are more important. > But you're right. I don't remember a>high powered simulated model doing a torque roll to inverted,>such as a P-51 might do, if suddenly full throttled on a low>airspeed go-around. >L.Adamson CFS2 had all the aerodynamic effects working. I modifed a B-17 AIR file so prop torque was signficant at initial climb. One had to really use the ailerons to keep the wings level if he was a bit slow. The effect drops rapidly with increasing IAS: the ailerons become more effective. 'Torque' is higher with low RPM, high MP. So, I could differentiate it from other effects. Futher, engine shaft torque is displayed in test gauges, so one can calculate the exact aileron deflection needed to counter it. Assuming it is modeled.Ron