WebMaximus

Brunner CLS-E - still the king of yokes in mid 2017?

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I'm playing around with the thought of getting a Brunner CLS-E yoke to make my VR experience not only a visual sensation but also physically feel a bit more realistic. Short of having a moving platform I figured a FF yoke might be a good option to at least get some physical feedback.

Then of course it wouldn't be just to add something "alive" into my VR environment but also to replace my plastic CH yoke which I had for many years with something a bit more robust.

I found a number of reviews and posts about this yoke where the majority of them were very positive with comments such as 'The best investment I ever made for my FS'. I also liked the fact that this yoke seemed to be the choice for many real world pilots where they said this is as close they have gotten to the feeling piloting a real aircraft.

So...lots of positive stuff but still a very expensive investment and even more so considering customs duty etc plus many of the reviews and posts were rather old. So for these reasons I would love to hear from current owners of this yoke how you like it today and if you're still as happy with it now that you had it for some time.

Also, maybe there's something new and even better around the corner I missed.

Guess I should also mention that I currently do all my flying in the PMDG NGX so that's where I'll be using this yoke should I decide to buy it.

Many thanks in advance for your input! 

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A couple of observations. I have not used the Brunner yoke but I have used the Iris FFB yoke. In my view it added very little to the sim. I was using FS-Force to add the forces, since FSX native support is useless. (Perhaps P3D is better.) With FS-Force you get movable trim, variable yoke resistance with speed and ground effects (essentially fake bumps as you roll down the runway). None of these added that much to the sim for me. The trim and force variation with speed were barely noticeable because the forces overall were quite small. The Iris yoke was also quite notchy in the roll plane (an effect described elsewhere as 'cogging', I think).

All that said, the Brunner is a more professional-looking product and i understand the software setup allows much more refinement. BUT - it can't work magic. Unless it is specifically designed to communicate with your sim it will not be able to provide the one thing I felt was lacking, which is environment effects - feeling wind gusts through the yoke, for example.

My final comment addresses your choice of aircraft. If you are flying an airliner will you not be spending most of your time on autopilot and flying only the takeoff and final approach by hand? I would question the value of a FFB yoke in such circumstances.

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Thanks for your feedback.

Obviously I can't say for sure since I haven't tried either one of these FF yokes but from what I've heard and seen the Brunner one works a bit differently vs the Iris one. I remember watching a clip on YouTube comparing these two.

As for environmental effects like feeling wind gusts etc I saw someone mentioning you do feel these kind of things with the Brunner yoke. I'm sure if someone reading this with experience of the Brunner could confirm this is the case.

Like you say obviously you'll use the yoke more frequently in a GA aircraft vs an airliner but still I want to have the most realistic feeling possible of actually piloting the aircraft and feeling its weight, the effect when extending the flaps etc when I do fly it manually.

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I have a Brunner Yoke and must say that I really enjoy it.

Trim is still a bit of a kludge, but I've got it pretty dialed in at this point and get get the A2A Cessna trimmed *almost* as fast as the real one.

I fly a 172 IRL and, while not a perfect analogue, I find that it does add to the overall experience; especially after using a CH Products and Saitek non-FB yoke.

This just "feels" very substantial.

I recently added it to a CKAS Thruxim 6DOF motion platform and it has been a blast!

-Paul

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Thanks Paul.

I think this is the kind of product you need to try for yourself to really understand what it's like.

Would be very interesting to hear if someone is using it with airliners such as the NGX.

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Here's an interesting clip I found for anyone else interested

 

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On 2017-05-13 at 10:47 PM, wazooda said:

I have a Brunner Yoke and must say that I really enjoy it.

Trim is still a bit of a kludge, but I've got it pretty dialed in at this point and get get the A2A Cessna trimmed *almost* as fast as the real one.

I fly a 172 IRL and, while not a perfect analogue, I find that it does add to the overall experience; especially after using a CH Products and Saitek non-FB yoke.

This just "feels" very substantial.

I recently added it to a CKAS Thruxim 6DOF motion platform and it has been a blast!

-Paul

A follow up question Paul. Have you managed to map any keyboard shortcuts to the buttons on the yoke?

The way I understood it there's some extra software needed for this?

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I'm getting close pressing that place order button but I've been trying to get in touch with Brunner to ask a couple of questions. I've been using both the contact form on their website and when I didn't hear back from them I decided to send an email as well but still nothing but silence.

Not very impressed to be honest and especially not when planning to buy a product in this price class.

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On 5/16/2017 at 1:18 PM, WebMaximus said:

A follow up question Paul. Have you managed to map any keyboard shortcuts to the buttons on the yoke?

The way I understood it there's some extra software needed for this?

Sorry for the late replay.  I've been busy racing on the motion sim. :)

I have not used keyboard shortcut mapping per se, but within P3D, I run FSUIPC and map buttons that way; along with vJoy which Brunner includes.

Their communication with me via email has been o.k.  I usually hear back within 48 hours.

That being said, I'm more concerned about their lack for business acumen.   The A2A guys offered to include their yoke in their full sim-rig they are setting up at SimCon as well as looking into integrating the yoke natively into the A2A aircraft.  Brunner apparently doesn't see it as useful to give them a complementary yoke to do those things.  I find that short-sighted from a growth perspective but to each their own.

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6 hours ago, wazooda said:

Sorry for the late replay.  I've been busy racing on the motion sim. :)

I have not used keyboard shortcut mapping per se, but within P3D, I run FSUIPC and map buttons that way; along with vJoy which Brunner includes.

Their communication with me via email has been o.k.  I usually hear back within 48 hours.

That being said, I'm more concerned about their lack for business acumen.   The A2A guys offered to include their yoke in their full sim-rig they are setting up at SimCon as well as looking into integrating the yoke natively into the A2A aircraft.  Brunner apparently doesn't see it as useful to give them a complementary yoke to do those things.  I find that short-sighted from a growth perspective but to each their own.

Seems like a pleasant way being busy :wink:

Thanks for the confirmation regarding the mapping of buttons. I already rely on FSUIPC for all my controller setup including mapping the buttons so great to hear it works the same way with the Brunner CLS-E yoke. But you do need to install vJoy in order for FSUIPC to "see" the Brunner yoke, is that correct?

As for communication with Brunner I certainly hope I'll hear back from them today. I posted my first inquiry regarding the yoke Wednesday this week and it was only a couple of simple questions but yet important ones to me before I order a yoke for this kind of money. I read another thread over in the XP.org forums where people said they were very impressed by how fast Brunner returned on questions so I guess that's why I was a bit surprised and disappointed I didn't already hear back from them when showing genuine interest in their products.

Maybe you or someone else in here has if not an answer so maybe a comment to the questions I'm waiting for Brunner to respond to.

These are the questions I asked Brunner:

1. I've found mixed information about the possibility to easily map things to the buttons found on the yoke. Some said it's not possible and that you can only map certain things such as F/D ON/OFF while others are saying you can map whatever you like via FSUIPC for example just like with any other yoke/joystick. I also heard and read about a software called vJoy. Not sure how that comes into play and when it's required?

2. Looking at the features of your CLS2Sim software over here compatibility with the PMDG 737-800 NGX is one of the features listed. What exactly does that mean - just to serve as an example of an aircraft that will work with your yoke or that you added some tailor-made features specifically for this particular aircraft model? Regardless it suits me fine since I do all my virtual flying in that aircraft model. I was just curious why it was listed separately on your webpage.

3. What happens if the yoke breaks after the 2 years warranty already passed and for how long will I be able to get spare parts? Is there any way to give a rough estimate what could possibly break or need a replacement within let's say 5-10 years and what the cost would be?

4. How do you see the future and compatibility for your product in the market? Hopefully new versions of the already existing simulators as well as brand new simulators will be supported with new software, drivers and plugins meaning the hardware will still be good for a long time ahead. Is that assumption correct?

5. What is the expected delivery time to Sweden?

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Received a reply and apparently they had been out during the week for some kind of event or something and hence the slow response time.

I was promised they would get back to me ASAP with answers to my questions so looking forward to that.

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Roger, the CEO over at Brunner responded to me in person later on with assuring answers to all my questions so I've now placed an order.

I'm very excited to get this kind of high quality yoke and can't wait to try it out!

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On 5/19/2017 at 4:04 PM, WebMaximus said:

Roger, the CEO over at Brunner responded to me in person later on with assuring answers to all my questions so I've now placed an order.

I'm very excited to get this kind of high quality yoke and can't wait to try it out!

Congrats! I think you'll be pleased with the purchase.

Now we need to start a Brunner Owners thread so we all have some place to go.... :)

-Paul

BTW - Your next purchase needs to be a CKAS motion platform.  It really is fantastic!

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Received the yoke today and took it for a quick spin in the NGX and in a word...WOW!!

This yoke really takes your simulated flying to a whole new level.

Now I just need to figure out how to set all parameters to best suit the NGX.

Would be really nice if there was a place where people could share experiences and profiles. I don't think such a forum exist does it? 

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On 5/24/2017 at 4:17 PM, WebMaximus said:

Received the yoke today and took it for a quick spin in the NGX and in a word...WOW!!

This yoke really takes your simulated flying to a whole new level.

Now I just need to figure out how to set all parameters to best suit the NGX.

Would be really nice if there was a place where people could share experiences and profiles. I don't think such a forum exist does it? 

Brunner has been promising for almost a year now that they were going to set up a forum on their site for information and profile exchange.

So far zero. :(

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