Freeware Authors - Discussion

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

I can't believe what I'm reading...really. This is just ludicrous.

[Guest Daviator]

I'll just share some quotes about avsim users I have recieved over the past few days. Each is from a different simmer:"I have found Avsim folks to be a little different, almost half a bubble off if you know what I mean. 99.9% of the critics there have never done anything or given anything back to the community yet they are the first in line to criticize someone's efforts. ""I read the thread at Avsim and I fully understand your frustration. I wanted to let the guys over at the Sim-Outhouse fs 2004 forum know what was going on after someone started a thread there about install issues with the Stearman. My username at Sim-outhouse is "xxxx".(name withheld for privacy) I think you know that the Outhouse gang is much more level headed when it comes to dealing with issue like this.""First off man. Don't let these bozo's get you down! You work too hard to put up with the BS. I can tell you from past experience, AVSIM has some of the most opinionated idiots I have ever run across. Case in point, I needed some help for a Southwest Project a few years back. Asked for help; next thing I know...I'm accused of being a terrorist, had Southwest Security called on me TWICE...by this idiot(XXXX)(name withheld for privacy) who is still on after being banned. Go figure. It was a mess. But I got thru the BS; and certainly very seldom post on AVSIM. Use Flightsim a lot. I agree a lot more adult oriented folks thrive there. The guy XXXX (name withheld for privacy) that is all over your thread. He one of the biggest idiot's I have run across. Talking about a dude who thinks he's God Gift...man! Just do a search on some of his earlier postings. You'll get the idea. He's not worth the bandwidth! Nor are most of the other AVSIM yahoo's."

[Guest Slacktide]

Yep, more ad-hominem anonymous "tips" that you claim to have recieved. Why don't you address the issues, David, rather than go around making these spurious accusations?

[Guest Peter Sidoli]

TomI am not voicing an opinion only a concern that if as you say the authors have rights of ownership and distribution then they also have the rights to remove their files.Avsim as stated should charge an author for any work or time involved in doing so.Whether the author is morally justified in doing so is not my concern here so maybe I misunderstood your intentions.Peter

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

Wow. Three quotes from individuals who don't like a particular site. I suppose it's not possible there are at least as many people around who feel the same way about your particular site of choice? I'd venture to say at least half (probably more than that) of the people who frequent this site visit many of the others too. The audiences are hardly that different.

[Guest Daviator]

The bottom line here is simple. I find the prevailing attitude at the avsim forums to be arrogant, self-righteous and full of pompous do- nothing a$$es. You all sit there like vultures waiting for the next thing to rip apart. All in the name of being "critics". Then you go after the designer when he fights back. Telling him he needs to have a thick skin. How about your skin? What have you really done for this community other than ####?How many aircraft have you released for free? How many tutorials have you written? How many emails have you answered and phone calls taken from designers with questions?Let's see some of the aircraft some of you have claimed to have released. let me take a look at them and "evaluate" your work. Give me some examples for me to download and "test". Let's see what YOU have contributed to this community other than self-centered remarks about the works of others. Get off your a$$ed and do something constructive. Yes, we as freeware designers deserve some respect. Even the worst model released deserves some praise. My God, the guy had the guts to expose his hard work to the world. What have do you have the guts to do other than criticism him?I suspect there's a fair amount of envy here as well. You can't do so you dis those that can. So get off your high horses and do some good and CONTRIBUTE. Dave

[Guest Daviator]

This is funny, this quote is from you in another thread on this forum. "The $15 average you mention for FS2000 was for a low poly aircraft with questionable flight dynamics and a panel using mainly default gauges.Anyone releasing something like that even as freeware today would get flamed so badly he'd quit and never be back."Even you recognize the hostile enviroment here.

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

I've downloaded and enjoyed the work of freeware designers like yourself and I've posted my thanks and my screenshots and my praise, and I've defended the work of both freeware and payware devs on many occasions against unreasonable criticism. That's what I've done. What more are you expecting from "us?" I guess what you really need is a forum for freeware developers only and anyone who hasn't released their own add-on can't register. You can upload your planes there and the other 30 or 40 guys can download them and tell you how spectacular they are.

[Guest IanP]

OK. I have contributed, and will continue to do so. I have spent thousands of hours working on things for other people, helping other people, I have released Freeware files, I have beta tested for payware teams, I have stood in the middle of shopping centres talking people through install problems down a mobile phone, I have held transatlantic phone calls at half past midnight trying to solve problems on release night. I have earned the right to comment here.My comment? This whole farce is pathetic and you are as much to blame as anyone else for the state this discussion is in.If you have personal problems with a poster, deal with it privately, or through the moderators if you feel it is necessary. You want to withdraw your aircraft from the Avsim / some other site / the net? Feel free. Go. You are an extremely talented designer and your skills and expertise will be missed. The reality is that in all probability, the hole that you leave will be filled by someone equally talented.This hobby has changed totally in the time I have been involved with it - which has been well over ten years. When I first got involved in FS, there were a few primadonnas, there were a few total imbeciles, but the vast majority of us got on fine. What the heck happened? Did humanity lose its grip on reality, or just FS users/developers?I'm also slightly surprised that, given the number of personal attacks in this and other threads, that the threads are still open.Ian P.

[Guest Daviator]

Wow, screenshots and praise, eh? No aircraft to speak of? No repaints even? No help with designing? Flight dynamics? Sounds? Scenery? Instruments? have you supplied photos? aircraft specs? aircraft manuals? Have you taken a single email about your "work"? It appears it's OK for you to "criticize" me and and my work and the way I react to it but you and your "work" are off limits.Thanks Zevious, "Defender of Unreasonable Criticism".

[Guest Daviator]

Please, share a file name of yours so I that can download it.

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

Actually I have done a few repaints but haven't bothered uploading them becuase I didn't think they were anything great really. I have done some work in the racesim world in the way of add-on cars for a couple of games and a fair bit of painting and some beta testing. But in the end, I don't have to defend myself or prove myself to you or anyone else. I'm not asking nor am I expecting you to do free stuff and release it for me. I kind of assume that people who do that sort of thing get some satisfaction from the act itself so to speak. Do you not enjoy the challenge of seeing a project through from start to finish? Isn't that really the primary "payment" you receive from what you do? Or is it all about getting kudos on the forums for you? Y'know, I'd be completely on your side here if it wasn't for the fact that your work has been pretty much universally praised (here and everywhere else that I know of). I think the Stearman is wonderful - it's a fantastic creation. Do you really consider a post notifying of a virus warning and a few guys who don't like auto-installers (who I actually disagreed with at the start of this whole mess) to be an attack on your work??

[Guest Ken_Salter]

I have contributed some freeware.I would give my opinion - but I have learned that when I do give my opinion it is usually taken as the policy of AVSIM. As to why this thread is still open - you are right, it shouldn't be. It has gone way off topic.However, I feel certain that if I lock this thread, people will complain that AVSim is supressing opinion (on one side or the other).So I'm inclined to let it go.

[Guest]

I don't deny there's a hostile group here, I do however deny it's larger or more vocal than elsewhere.

[Guest DRG_1]

>Yep, more ad-hominem anonymous "tips" that you claim to have>recieved. Why don't you address the issues, David, rather>than go around making these spurious accusations?Well I will step up to the plate and tell you that one of those comments Dave posted came from me. I am a painter, some here may know me some may not but my stuff has been downloaded over 100,000 times from this site and two others. Some of my paints have been used by payware developers. I think I have an understanding of where Dave is coming from. I hardly post here for reasons I will not go into but I do come and watch the various threads and topics to try an keep up with what is going on. Some of the vitriol expressed in this thread and others I have seen toward a person trying their best to give something to the community is very dissapointing to me. Does anyone with a clear mind believe someone with Dave's reputation would put a virus in his download? If other sites were checked, as many here say they did, then it would be clear that they all scan for viruses before allowing anything into the library. If a virus was truly there then they all would have contacted Dave to let him know something slipped in, but they did not. Some say they do not like self installers, fine, then you have other options. Use them if wish, they are there. Some people are not accomplished at installing new aircraft and an installer is a welcome site to them. The attitude of entitlement I see in this thread and others is not right. When someone gives you something smile and say thank you. Even if it does not live up to your expectations. Our mothers (at least mine) would have twisted our ears off if we were ever heard complaining about a gift that someone went out of their way to give.I have looked at the thread at the other site and I think the tone between the two is night and day. Those that can be objective go compare the two. David, I will say thank you for your efforts, keep them coming and I for one, do understand and appreciate the hard work that goes into a project like this. I have no affiliation with Dave Eckert just so people don't think Dave put me up to this. I just felt someone needed to stand up.Flame me if you like, I don't care.Regards,David Green