Ah...........You've pushed the push for realism too far... :-hah IMO, everyone who flys a simulated twin, should be required to have dual throttle quadrants complete with dual prop and mixture controls. Separate fuel selectors with cross-feed shall be required too!After all, in an engine out procedure, your hands and mind must be moving fast, with fingers on the proper controls at the correct millisecond! There IS NO TIME to be "mousing around"!Some may think I'm joking here, but not really...When I see complaints that a simulated twin isn't up to par with full realism, then I believe it's the same with controls. Using a "mouse" with single control levers is not real at all, especially in the amount of time required to move levers. To get full benefit, for practicing actual controls, you MUST have a dual setup. You certainly won't be moving a "mouse" back and forth in the real aircraft!I don't have a desktop dual setup, but put a lot of hours into a dual engine airplane rating years ago, although I didn't complete it. Therefor, I know that single controls and a mouse doesn't cut it for full realism. So when a simmer or developer demands full twin prop realism on a desktop from the core developer, I think it's a bunch of baloney, as I know that most simmers will never have full dual controls to start with!L.Adamson

>To be honest I think what they've got is a huge hole in the>aerodynamics department at the ACES Studios. Ptrobably there's>no one in the "ACES Aerodynamics Dept.". He/She left long ago,>by the time the new turbine models were introduced. Then,>sometime between fs2002 and fs2004 someone decided to make a>straight cut on the AIRfile parameters, and we were left with>what MSFS flight dynamics are now...>>I just wonder why they don't ask for support from credited>developers. People like Ron Freimuth, Rob Young, Herv

I agree Larry.... Thanks to a great fellow simmer D. Lee who sent this real Baron quad to me-and my realism went way up the day I started using it-part of the "flight model" for sure!http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/154485.jpghttp://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

chin up tdragger.

>chin up tdragger.Personally, I don't think I would have put up with it this long, hence why I am not in the game development industry.

I have! I use ELITE, and it would be useless without it for the great ELITE Baron, Seneca and B200...

I noticed those improvements too, and even commented on it. They have modified the FMs to allow for much more acceptable stalls and even spins, at least in the Beaver and CRJ. The Baron behaves strangely when stalled....

Well,OTOH, as the old saying here in Portugal goes... "He who disdains, want's to buy..."I am critic about MSFS, but together with ELITE it is simply my preferred flightsim. Just as I wrote a few messages above on this thread, It gathers the most extensive set of features of any PC-based flightsim (game) and does it all in a rather convincing way, satisfying from the casual flightsimmer to the fanatic (like me...). It's kind of the regression curve for flight simulation.I only would like to see more attention put on the flight and systems modeling side. It's not that difficult after all - the core is there and can be used to it's limits. I am sure the effort put into those nice flocks of birds is way bigger than what would be required to fix the turbine model, the mixture bug and a few more aspects of the simulation. Now, I also agree that +90% of the market would rather prefer to see flocks of birds and wild animals, and wouldn't care less about tiny little details like those I am worried about, and they represent the market after all.Soooo taildrager, PLEASE ACCEPT MY APPOLOGIES FOR HAVING BEEN SO RUDE on my comments above :-( It is certainly not fair for you, and not fair for the rest of the ACES team.... For the very first time in the history of this sim you have put a playable demo online way before the final version becomes available. It's a huge effort I am sure, and a huge risk too, but after all, and appart from this critical guy (me...) the overall comments on this demo are POSITIVE.As a matter of fact, I like it very much. It runs smoothly on my far from top-notch machine, at least as smooth as fs2004 used to. There have been improvements ** EVEN ** in the FM department, as I pointed out before, and Geofa repeated above, and there's a LOT more to come wich I welcome, such as the new multiplayer system. Together with the effort to release the SDK with the FSX CD (deluxe edition I believe) I am sure this is the right formula for amazing add-ons in the future, and I'll be busy using it...I'm really feeling bad ... A BIG SORRY!!!!BTW: See? My signature says it all....

You know... those hot headed Portuguese 'll get ya every time. :-)Thomas(whose grandparent's name is Pereira)[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)