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forshaw

Problems getting the KORD SIDS to work in my FMC-PMDG

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Hello Folks,

So after all of these years (since FS started) of using the default FSX ATC I purchased PRO ATC X and so I started to use SID's & STAR's as part of flying experienced.I always stayed away from using SID's & STAR's due to the headaches associated with the process. I understand how to read the charts and program the FMC, there a  lot of videos out there however, they rarely go into details about corrections and other inherent issues and what to do. So I  do need some help in that respect.. 

So a little bid of a background that may help pinpoint where I may be going wrong or there may be a real issue that I wasn't aware of.

  • I am using PMDG 747 V3 and have the latest update. I have the Navigraph that came with PMDG which I think is AIRAC 1702.
  • I have always used FSCommander for my flight plans and export to FSX and my Aircraft FMC (PMDG 747 & IFLY v2 747-8). ATC will always victor me in out of airports so I didn't deal with SID's and STAR's and it always worked fine.

So based on input and comments from everyone I decided to spice it up like in the real world and go with a better ATC and utilize SID's and STAR's programming into my FMC.

I actually just bought the FSDreamteam KORD Airport scenery so that I have the latest runways to at least match the FMC to some extent. FSD KORD is still a little out of date but better than the default which is very very old.

  • I planned a flight from KJFK to KORD with Pro ATC X which provided me with a SID, which I put into the FMC. I held off on doing the STAR since I wanted to want until it was finalized closer to landing. The runway was 04R. 
  • The PMDG FMC didn't like the way the SID was presented had CRD01 and CRD02 which caused a few disconn to the Transitions point,  but I fixed it  so my FMC flight path to the transition matched the PRO ATC x perfectly.
  • This was the flight plan-path generated by Pro ATC X. "KJFK-DCT-CANDR-J60-GSH-DCT-STASH-KORD"
  • As per the moving map i was looking good until I programmed the FMC with the STAR which generated a lot of disconn and I couldn't fix it for the life of me.
  • Pro ATC X provided STAR: ERNNY4; Transaction: STASH with Rwy ILS 04R. for arrival.
  • In the FMC Arrival screen I selected the transition first which was ERNNY4 but the FMC didn't have a (-04  Rwy) next to the name like it would be with the other STAR but it looked like this ERNNY4-4B so I selected it. Not sure if that's correct or not but it was the closest.
  • I then selected the runway 04R then the Trans which was STASH and then Exec, that's when everything went off course. i am assuming that's the correct sequence inputting the information.
  • The distance to KORD from my waypoint went from 128 mils to 380 and there was a lot of disconn with CRD01 and CRD02 added. I looked at the Pro ATC X moving map chart to try and connect the FMC to the Plan but I just couldn't get it done. I think I understand how to correct disconn and have done it a few times when doing my flight plan.I tried everything possible and couldn't get it corrected. i did get rid of the disconn but the victor was incorrect.

My questions are:

  • Is it that the FMC cannot handle that SID and STAR and I should just follow ATC instructions to landing and forget programming the FMC at least for this approach?
  • Am I doing something wrong in setting up the FMC?
  • Is there an existing problem with the STAR for runway 04R? .

Both times I did the flight it was Rway 04R so that is the only reference I have in terms approach for this flight

I have done this flight twice before (with this new KORD airport) as a yardstick using the default FSX ATC and was victor into Rwy10 and 04R  with no issues.  But then again that was with the FSX standard ATC with no FMC STARS.

I would really like to get SID's and STAR'S correct so any help that can be provided would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the long intro but hopefully this would eliminate any back and forth questions about what I tried and what I did.

 

Thanks again.

Kindest Regards.

Forshaw.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, forshaw said:

I actually just bought the FSDreamteam KORD Airport scenery so that I have the latest runways to at least match the FMC to some extent. FSD KORD is still a little out of date but better than the default which is very very old.

My questions are:

  • Is it that the FMC cannot handle that SID and STAR and I should just follow ATC instructions to landing and forget programming the FMC at least for this approach?
  • Am I doing something wrong in setting up the FMC?
  • Is there an existing problem with the STAR for runway 04R? 

In some respects you have the answer to your own questions, because not only is FSDT's KORD out of date but so is your Navigraph database.  The PMDG 747v3 comes with its original 1702 Navigraph Database (current when the aircraft was first released). 

FSDT is due to release on an eagerly anticipated KORD update in the near future.  You need to use the latest Navigraph Database with your Pro ATC X software for the two to work properly together with the PMDG 747v3 FMC.  You will then find that the FMC contains an up-to-date ERNNY5.04B STAR with a STASH Transition for RWY 04R at Chicago O'Hare and you shouldn't have any problems clearing up the few discontinuities that normally appear when you enter this sort of arrival information.  So, in answer to your bullet points:-

  • The FMC works perfectly with the latest SID's and STAR's.  Always program the FMC for the arrival route and runway you expect to use and you can then modify it as necessary to agree with any re-route ATC might give you (you can always modify your original route by going direct to a different waypoint if ATC directs you there).
  • You will need to purchase a Navigraph subscription in order to get the latest Navigraph database for use with the PMDG 744's FMC and your Flight Planning software..
  • There is if you want to keep using the 1702 Navigraph software but not when using the current 1905 Navigraph database (version 1702 is now two years out of date).  
Edited by berts

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Hi Bertie;

 

Thanks very much for your response and detail explanation, I really appreciate it. Yes definitely makes sense, I thought as much but was also thinking that maybe I can get away without going through the upgrade. I actually picked the "wrong" Airport that is rally behind in the times. The FSDT is still out of date which doesn't have all of the Runways :sad:, but as you stated they are due for an update.

I was trying to avoid the subscription but I guess I have to really get it. It not about the money but from what I read it's an annual subscription, I guess I will just do it.

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to help me on this.

 

Kindest Regards.

Forshaw.

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To be honest, having seen how much work they'd be doing over these years (starting back in 2012ish), I have mainly ignored any ORD updates that weren't simple Airport File Updates ("AFCADs"). Not as pretty, obviously, but to much "up in the air" to settle on an add-on at the moment.

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Hi Kyle;

Yes KORD has been pragmatic for sometime now which is a bad choice on my part to test my FMC/STAR's and ATC PRO X. The 1st time i noticed there was an issue was when I was cleared by FSX ATC for Rwy i think it was (32R) for take off and the PMDG FMC couldn't find it in their database. So I decided to get the FSDT KORD, and yes it is better than the default but it is still way off. They have a lot of Rwys missing and some they have no longer exist. There are Rwys 10L/10C/10R in the charts but the FSDT only has 10. Who knows what else is off.

Yes you are absolutely correct there is so much changes in progress it's a good idea to shelve that for now and use other Airports. I have also given up on the AFCADs updates

I will definitely upgrade my Navigraph soon but in the interim I will fly into my other Add-on Airports that have been stable for sometime. Yes KORD was a bad choice to practice my STAR's FMC programming with an ATC😊.

Thanks.

Best Regards.

Forshaw

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On 5/9/2019 at 9:16 PM, forshaw said:

I will definitely upgrade my Navigraph soon but in the interim I will fly into my other Add-on Airports that have been stable for sometime. Yes KORD was a bad choice to practice my STAR's FMC programming with an ATC😊.

It's worth bearing in mind that if you use a current Flight Planning database like PRO ATC X with the PMDG 747 then you should also have a current FMC (Navigraph) database as well.  This means taking out a Navigraph subscription for the same month; ideally longer if you want to keep your exisiting 747's Nav software up to date or decide to purchase the PMDG 747-8. 

I am not familiar with PRO ATC X, but it is possible to select the 1702 database within some Flight Planning programs (such as Simbrief) and this will allow you to produce Flight Plans with SID's and Star's that are more compatible with your 747's current 1702 Nav Database.  As Kyle says, there have been so many changes at airports like KORD in recent years (I miss departing off Runway 32R) that it is virtually impossible to keep all of your AFCADs up to date, even if you want to.   The good news is that it can also be very interesting and sometimes rewarding trying to do so!       

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On 5/10/2019 at 5:04 PM, berts said:

It's worth bearing in mind that if you use a current Flight Planning database like PRO ATC X with the PMDG 747 then you should also have a current FMC (Navigraph) database as well.  This means taking out a Navigraph subscription for the same month; ideally longer if you want to keep your exisiting 747's Nav software up to date or decide to purchase the PMDG 747-8. 

I am not familiar with PRO ATC X, but it is possible to select the 1702 database within some Flight Planning programs (such as Simbrief) and this will allow you to produce Flight Plans with SID's and Star's that are more compatible with your 747's current 1702 Nav Database.  As Kyle says, there have been so many changes at airports like KORD in recent years (I miss departing off Runway 32R) that it is virtually impossible to keep all of your AFCADs up to date, even if you want to.   The good news is that it can also be very interesting and sometimes rewarding trying to do so!       

Yeah, I did confirm that the latest PRO ATC x am I using is currently in sync with the PMDG FMC 1702 (PRO ATC X is known not having frequent updates) so at least we are dancing to the same tune. I try to stay away from Flt Planning programs such as SimBrief since I didn't want to be out of sync with the SID's and STAR's. I never import a flight plan to PRO ATC x I use what they generate since it should be the same. But...you never know sometimes.

You mentioned the PMDG 747-8 which I intend to purchase by the end of the week. Are you saying that the -8 will have an updated Navigraph? 

 

Thanks again.

 

Forshaw.

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On 5/13/2019 at 3:49 PM, forshaw said:

You mentioned the PMDG 747-8 which I intend to purchase by the end of the week. Are you saying that the -8 will have an updated Navigraph? 

Nice try!

If you want an updated Navigraph database with PMDG's 747 and/or 747-8 you will need to take out a Navigraph subscription (you can try a one month cycle and if you don't like it you can always cancel).  However, if you keep this software up to date there is an added bonus in the -8, because you will be able to display the Jeppesen airfield plates on its EFB (as well as on your iPad or Tablet if you also have SimServer's EFB). 

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On 5/14/2019 at 4:24 PM, berts said:

Nice try!

Yeah.. wishful thinking in my part. LOL.

Also thanks for the reminder about Jeppesen Plates on EFB I forgot about that added feature. That's great.

So is it a monthly subscription that's recurring until you cancel? There were no specific details on the website in terms of the process and price.

Thanks again Bertie.

Kindest Regards.

Forshaw. 

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6 hours ago, forshaw said:

So is it a monthly subscription that's recurring until you cancel? There were no specific details on the website in terms of the process and price.

There are if you click on Navigraph's text "Purchase Subscription" and select your own country, because it will then give you several options and prices to choose from including Charts, FMS Data and Ultimate (Charts and FMS Data) with monthly or annual subscription options.  For obvious reasons the ultimate annual subscription represents better value for money when compared to a monthly renewal, but I don't think you will be disappointed if you do opt for this option. 

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16 hours ago, berts said:

There are if you click on Navigraph's text "Purchase Subscription" and select your own country, because it will then give you several options and prices to choose from including Charts, FMS Data and Ultimate (Charts and FMS Data) with monthly or annual subscription options.  For obvious reasons the ultimate annual subscription represents better value for money when compared to a monthly renewal, but I don't think you will be disappointed if you do opt for this option. 

Fantastic, got it. Thank you very much for the information. I am good to go.

Kindest Regards.

Forshaw.

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