Hi Oliver - Just purchased LAAO but haven't had a chance to use it yet. Reading the documentation brings up some questions. FWIW, I have been using FSUIPC to assign my CH Yoke, CH TQ, CH Rudders and Saitek X55 in P3d5 and in process of working out the best for MSFS. Looking at LAAO it might solve some of the issues with the other product.

You mention disabling conflicting assignments in sim. Can I assume you mean the actively selected controller in sim as opposed to one that has been set up but is not active/. None of my controls are preprogrammed by MSFS so I have a DEFAULT profile for every controller that is empty. Can I assume that if I select those as active and use LAAO I would have no issues.

I keep all the controllers plugged in and assign profiles that match the a/c. So I have single engine stick, single yoke, single turbo, twin turbo, jet etc .  Your docs indicate that I can set up something similar so that if I select a twin turbo LAAO will auto assign the correct profile that I have set up.

I did a quick skim of your docs so I may have missed it but is there a method of calibrating the axes? I saw the section where you describe adjusting the curve, etc so I expect that is it.

ok, enough rambling thoughts - won't get a chance to actually try it out until probably tomorrow but if it does what I think it does....  🙂 

Thanx,

Vic

Edit: Possibility down the road to have custom install folder?

Edit2: Thinking about ease of setup. Say I set up one aircraft and only map the rudders and save that as a rudder template. Now I set up another a/c with just a yoke with it's relative axis and save that as a template. NOW 🙂 I have a third aircraft - can I import BOTH the rudder and the yoke templates to create one new combined for that a/c? I have a throttle quafdrant and an x55 stick throttle also so I can have many different combinations depending on the selected a/c. I'm just trying to visualize a "basic" template than can be expanded for individual a/c.

Hello Vic,

16 hours ago, vgbaron said:

Can I assume you mean the actively selected controller in sim as opposed to one that has been set up but is not active/

I'm not sure that I get the difference. The point is, that controllers that are assigned both in MSFS and in AAO will override each others inputs. So it is better to keep an empty profile in sim and/or assign only those controls that you can't handle with AAO (for example using drone camera with an XBox controller).

16 hours ago, vgbaron said:

Your docs indicate that I can set up something similar so that if I select a twin turbo LAAO will auto assign the correct profile that I have set up.

Yes, kind of the same as FSUIPC does. Every control that you assign is automatically added to a profile for your current aircraft - which is loaded also automatically when you select that aircraft again in the sim. But all that happens in the background, you don't have to concern yourself with profiles or templates, that is the AAOs job. 

16 hours ago, vgbaron said:

is there a method of calibrating the axes?

You calibrate the axis on the main screen. The graphics are not only for show - you can drag the blue triangles to adjust the axis range, pull the red triangle around to adjust the center and you can spin the mouse wheel on the grey bar to create a dead zone around that center. The curve is just for axis response.

16 hours ago, vgbaron said:

Possibility down the road to have custom install folder?

Sorry, but no. The installation folders are the mandatory ones for Windows applications (32 and 64 bit versions). The only exception are the versions for P3D V4 and V5 where I put it into the autodiscovery folder for convenience (so you can start it with the sim simply by activating the add-on.xml). Besides, there is nothing to do or to see for you in the (25 MByte) installation folder. The data storage is in AppData\Local. 

16 hours ago, vgbaron said:

I'm just trying to visualize a "basic" template

The templates can't be merged. I can try to implement that, but at the moment they don't mix. I usually do it the other way around - I select the configuration of an existing aircraft of similar layout and assign that to the new plane - then change the controllers that don't fit.

Btw. since many people seem to get that wrong: the purpose of the "Manage joysticks" dialog is (only) this: sometimes Windows decides to change the ID of your USB game controllers. That would break the assignment in AAO, because it needs that ID as reference. With the "Manage joysticks" dialog you can replace the old ID that is in your saved configurations with the new one, so you don't have to re-assign everything.

Best regards

 

 

Edited September 10, 20205 yr by Lorby_SI

Sounds good Oliver!

No biggie re install folder - I usually install most of my programs on my Programs drive - just convenience of having them all together.

I use a little program called JoyID to keep track of the controllers. I've been bitten by windows on that one before, glad to know you have it covered.

I'll have to wrap my head around your plane specific profiles in planning but I'm not THAT old that I can't adapt.  🙂 

I'm used to having master profiles and assigning the a/c to the profile rathe than the profile to the a/c. That way if I change the profile, it's changed for all a/c whereas in your implementation, I'd have to manually change the profile of each.

What I meant about the profiles in sim - active/non -  For example on my CH Yoke -  I have three profiles defined:

1) default - nothing is assigned - essentially a blank profile

2) Single - all axes and buttons assigned for single engine operation

3) Twin - the throttle, prop, mixture axes are disabled ( handled by my throttle quadrant) buttonos are same.

Now, if I SAVE/APPLY the default profile - I wold think that the assignments in the other two would not interfere with LAAO because, to my understanding, the sim doesn't know of them unless they're selected and applied.

Have I missed something?

One issue I'm having with FSUIPC is random disconnects where all control is lost, you can reload the program and recover but it's a pain. Hoping it's not the simconnect dll. 

BTW, glad you decided to charge a bit for this. The AOO was a great freebie but you deserve to be compensated for your efforts.

Thanx,

Vic

Hello Vic,

I am probably just wired differently. I don't care much about handling and organizing profiles, I want the program to do that without me having to think about it or making a plan. I made AAO about three years ago, because I was unhappy with the existing solutions for various reasons. I wanted a joystick config app with more of the look and feel of the modern games. 

In my experience I rarley had the use case that I would change an existing controller assignment that would affect a multitude of aircraft at the same time. I prefer to set it up when I am using the actual plane, and when I can see what that change really does. And when I get a new plane, I just apply an existing configuration of another aircraft and then adjust that for the new one. 

What I definitely did not want to do was to create a clone of an existing app - because, what would be the point. When people prefer say, FSUIPC, how would I even compete with that? So I was hoping to take a new path and do things a little differently than the others. Naturally, I don't know if I succeeded in doing that, so I added the option of a demo version. 

Best 
Oliver

Edited September 10, 20205 yr by Lorby_SI

Like anything else, a lot is just matter of preference or m ore likely, learning it one way.

The interface is clean and intuitive, that's half the battle.

At my first shot at assignments have run into a few gotchas

CH rudders programmed as expected

CH Yoke - Flight axes show as programmed but have no effect in sim. Rudders, throttle, prop and mixture work as expected so just ailerons and elevators do not respond. They DO respond in calibration.

All the view options (POV) programmed to Pan UP, down etc - did not effect the sim

Tried to program a button to either press the END key or assign to Cockpit/Externak view toggle - could not find any assignment for that action. Default END keyboard command works.

Tried assigning reset cockpit view to a button on saitek x55 throttle - it shows as assigned but nothing in sim

Assigned engine autostart to throttle quadrant button - works fine.

If nothing worked I'd understand but something works on every device.

All the controllers in sim are set to default profile with  no assignments.

 

Change the file extension to ZIP

Thanx,

Vic

3 hours ago, vgbaron said:

CH Yoke - Flight axes show as programmed but have no effect in sim. Rudders, throttle, prop and mixture work as expected so just ailerons and elevators do not respond. They DO respond in calibration.

That is VERY strange - no reason why they shouldn't. There have not been any reports like this before. I have a CH yoke too (or at least the electronics of it), works just fine. Is that with all aircraft or only a specific one? Did you try to assign the alierons to another (any other) axis on a controller? And how did you assign them, using the list at the top or using a manually chosen event? Just to make sure that it isn't some setting in the simulator that prevents the surfaces from moving.

In general: don't expect the legacy events from FSX to just work out of the box with MSFS. Many of those are simply not available in MSFS. They are mentioned in the SDK documentation, but they do nothing in the simulator. This is well known and has been reported to Asobo numerous times (it has always been this way, even in the Alpha/Beta). Fact of the matter is, that only the "facade" of the SimConnect interface is there, not (all) the interior. Asobo is obviously writing it from scratch, so over time, more and more functionality will become available. It is a little bit misleading that the SDK documentation claims that the events are there, when in reality they aren't, but that issue has also been reported to Asobo a long time ago.

Sorry, but I can't access the video. The link redirects to an attachment php on AVSIM, I don't get to change the file name.

Best regards

Edited September 11, 20205 yr by Lorby_SI

If you right click the file and save link as msfs test.zip you'll be able to open it.

I clicked add, moved the yoke and in top selected aileron. and then add - it showed in main panel. Moving it showed activity in the axis but n othing in sim. Same with elevators. Then with throttle, prop and mixture the levers moved in sim but not aileron or elevator. Tried three planes - same results - axis work in LAAO display but not in sim

The pan and reset views did not work in sim but did show as active in LAAO.

The END keyboard function resolves to a toggle cockpit/external which is an available commandin sim but is not availab le in either your drop down or rightclick list. Also couldn't find any of the LOOK commands which I used in sim to program POV switch up/down/left/right. Closest in your list was PAN but altho assigned, didn't work in sim either.

I'll try again tomorrow to see if I can program the ailerons/elevators to the saitek stick. Any other log or any other info I can get you.?

FWIW, I have been able to assign allthese same buttons and axes to stick, rudder, yoke and TQ both natively in sim and through FSUIPC using the sim definitions so I'm positive the hardware is working.

if you still cannot open the file, which just contains your logs and xml files, let me know and I'll just cut/paste the files in a message.

Thanx,

Vic

1 hour ago, vgbaron said:

If you right click the file and save link as msfs test.zip you'll be able to open it.

Sorry, doesn't work. If I try to save the link it says "Can't be downloaded".

1 hour ago, vgbaron said:

The END keyboard function resolves to a toggle cockpit/external which is an available commandin sim but is not availab le in either your drop down or rightclick list. Also couldn't find any of the LOOK commands which I used in sim to program POV switch up/down/left/right. Closest in your list was PAN but altho assigned, didn't work in sim either.

What event does the "END" use? LOOK* events are not listed in the SDK documentation except the mouse look toggle, so they are not available in AAO either (I have no way of knowing their names or how to call them if there is no spec). I was thinking about adding an option that you can define your own events should you stumble upon their proper names though, but that is really crude. In my experience, the legacy camera commands don't work at all - I am testing that with my CPX app. I would love to get that one operational, but not a chance currently.

As for the axis, I am afraid that I don't really know what to tell you. AAO has a couple of hundred users, but nobody ever reported something like this. Please double check that the aileron and elevator are not assigned in sim or in another tool at the same time. I think that when testing I had a similar situation where the control surfaces wouldn't move in MSFS, but that was some kind of special mode I was in (slew or one of the pauses). I have a CH yoke that I have converted to a HOTAS setup, and I never had any problems with it. And as you say, the app picks it up fine. So it must be something in MSFS.

Btw. if you think that you may have a broken configuration, you can reset the app to factory settings by deleting this folder:
C:\Users\...\AppData\Local\LORBY_SI\LorbyAxisAndOhsMSFS

Best regards

Edited September 11, 20205 yr by Lorby_SI

ok let's try this -  https://www.dropbox.com/s/fpfqy6sx15h88gt/MSFS Test.zip?dl=0

 

I've included two additional files FYI - one is the keyboard assignments and the other is all the commands that are available in th sim dialogs. I have notated a few that are in sim but not in your list. I suspect the SDK list is not complete or they've changed the names.

The END key (toggle Cockpit/External view and the pov LOOK views and external views are not in LAAO.

I'll play around and see if i can figure out what's going on

 

EDIT: Partial success - deleted the folders you indicated. Now all axes work as expected - all buttons work EXCEPT - none of the view commands work for me. Many which are listed in sim and keyboard are not available in your lists. There are a whole slew of external and cockpit views missing. I was able to assign functions to rudder, TQ, Yoke and X55 with no issues except no view commands function.

Curious - without using the keyboard, how do you switch between cockpit and external views?

Thanx,

Vic

7 hours ago, vgbaron said:

none of the view commands work for me

Those don't work for anyone, they are non-functional in the SimConnect interface. And many of those commands that are listed on the simulators controller assignment are not even available in the SimConnect API. Or if they are, I don't know their IDs. I tried using the text that you see on the sims assignment dialog as ID with no success (that worked for another event, but not for the views).

The same goes for many other events that are listed in the doc but are non-functional - like G1000 buttons. But they are in the official spec and you never know if they might become operational with a sim update - so I keep them around.  On the other hand there obviously are events and variables that Asobo didn't tell us about.

So I suggest assigning the view commands in the simulator itself, until such a time when the full spec and functionality of SimConnect are released. With the current SDK being version 0.5, I suppose that we are about halfway there. The issues with the missing and unknown commands and incomplete SimConnect documentation has been reported to Asobo in March/April at the latest.

Best regards

Edited September 12, 20205 yr by Lorby_SI

Thanx Oliver, I understand the situation. As a matter of info though, in my testing of the other program, those view commands were listed in their menus and they all worked as expected. In either case, with the condition of the SDK I'm pretty sure a mix of external control and in sim control is the way to go.

Thanx,

Vic

1 minute ago, vgbaron said:

those view commands were listed in their menus

Congratulations. Without a written spec that is quite the challenge. But since every simulator update can break work-around solutions, I am hesitant to implement any of those.

8 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

Congratulations. Without a written spec that is quite the challenge. But since every simulator update can break work-around solutions, I am hesitant to implement any of those.

LOL. No I didn't do it, someone else did. I'm missing something here though. What workaround? Those are the command listed in the MSFS menu system when assigning to controls. If I want to map a button to toggle between interior and exterior views ( such as the END keyboard command does) I just select it from the MSFS list and save it. It's a valid command, not a workaround. Same with all the POV commands - they are in the sim. I suspect the list in the SDK is woefully inaccurate which makes it a pain for developers.

Vic

1 hour ago, vgbaron said:

It's a valid command, not a workaround. Same with all the POV commands - they are in the sim

"Being in the sim" - that doesn't mean that they are available as simulator events in the SimConnect API. I can't just "call anything" - a simulator event has an ID and unless I know that ID, my app can't send that event. Likewise if that event is not even implemented/accessible in the internal MSFS SimConnect API logic, there is no way to trigger it.

So until there is a written specification that lists all the proper Event-IDs for me to call via SimConnect, with a description of what they do and what values to set, they are not available or non-functional in AAO.

1 hour ago, vgbaron said:

What workaround?

Somehow guessing the event IDs, decompiling the MSFS DLLs, or otherwise hacking the sim in my book is working around the fact that they are not supposed to work in the API in the first place. The next simulator update may invalidate that approach. So I will only implement features that are properly documented in the SDK specification. Everything else is just too risky for my taste. This is not the FSX world anymore, where nothing ever changes. Many things that we took for granted are either not there at all or they work differently - the camera system being the prime example.

For the record: using the names of the events on the MSFS controller assignment dialog as SimConnect Event IDs was the first thing that I tried. It works for some (like the avionics switches) but for most of them the sim just throws an Exception 7 - "Name unrecognized". So that was a dead end.

Best regards

Edited September 12, 20205 yr by Lorby_SI

Ah! It takes me a while sometimes but we are now on the same page!  🙂  I understand completely now what you are referring to. The SDK , or lack of, is the real culprit here. My error was ASSUMING that, if the command was listed and available IN the sim, there would be an ID associated with it for access by devs.  Should have known better.  Nope, don't blame you at all for sticking with what is currently documented so far. You'd be chasing a moving target otherwise.

I know Asobo acknowledges the SDK is a mess in all areas so let's hope they concentrate on getting that squared away else growth due to 3PD's will be severely limited.

Thanx for your patience!

Vic