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SunTiger81

NaviGraph Charts / Pilot2ATC / Little Navmap

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Greetings fellow virtual pilots (and some of you real ones).

Question for you..  I just got the NaviGraph subscription and am happy to have current data and world wide charts for my IFR flights 🙂

Nice!

Planning the flights can be tricky.

First, I use Pilot2ATC for my ATC (no doubt a great option).

I am also using the new MSFS 2020 (but my question really does not depend on the sim).

I started off all excited and tried to build some flight plans with NaviGraph.  It works.  But, can be very confusing in some ways, just in terms of the interface etc.  It also does nothing in terms of giving current weather / active runways in use.. so, I still use Simbrief to get that data.  So, now with the current active runways, estimated flight level and speed.. I head on over to NG Charts to make my plan.  Sometimes I can figure it out and sometimes I get frustrating trying to connect everything to "work" I especially have a hard time with the STARS / APPR phase.  

Anyway..

Then, I learned about the program Little Navmap.  So, I gave this a shot.  This is basically the same as NavGraph Charts, (without any charts) and an older interface, but also includes other planning tools that are welcome.  It also is better in some ways to "see" more info all at once.  So, it's really more advanced in that way.   So, I tried making a flight plan here.  Worked well, then exported as a *.pln for MSFS.. and it loaded up nice in the sim.  Great.

The problem?

Cross talking between all the platforms.  It's just not working well.

If I make a plan in Navigraph.  Import to Pilot2ATC.. I will have to manually "fix" all the SIDS, STARS and APPR.  

If I make a plan in Pilot2ATC, and import to NaviGraph.. I get errors as well.  Unknow fixes, waypoints, etc.

If I make a plan in Little Navmap and import to any of the above.. same issues.

So, I feel like in all cases there is a ton more work here going on.  Unfortunately there is no "one in all" way to create a plan and have all the same features.

Is there some special format or process I need to try to get this to work well?  Everything is on the same / current AIRAC.   It's frustrating when everything is current, yet none of these applications are talking with one another during export / import.

Thanks for the help!

T

 

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29 minutes ago, rksoftware said:

Why not try to use SimBrief for flight planning.

lol.  I do.  But, this is not the answer by itself.   

Simbrief is not great for SIDS, STARS, and to be able to visualize approaches.  It is however a wonderful tool for planning the other aspects of the flight, including fuel, altitude, speed, current weather and active runways, etc.   But in terms of really get to planning the flight path.. its not the best at all. 

Basically, here is how the workflow goes..

1. Start with Simbrief for the metrics.

2. Open NaviGraph to plan the flight, consult charts etc.

3. Export the flight for the sim and ATC (Pilot2ATC)

4. Cross check the FMS in the plane with the imported plan / ensure it matches ATC etc.

5. Fly.

To be honest, the thing that matters most is the flight plan inside of Pilot2ATC.  This is where (what) is controlling everything while I fly.  So, that is important.   Planning the flight in Pilot2ATC is actually pretty good.  But, where it lacks is often choosing the correct runway with the current weather conditions and often gives me VERY long distances between waypoints for an autoroute.  

When I fly, I have to have open Pilot2ATC (obviously) and I like to now have Navigraph Charts open.  This way I can reference plates and charts as needed.  So, it makes the most sense that I use these for all the planning.  

I actually just did an experiment.. it seems if I export the NG Charts plan as an *.fms and then import into Pilot2ATC it will bring over all of the SIDS / STARS /APPR.  So, thats good.  Then, I just need to export again from Pilot2ATC to MSFS in the *.pln format.  

So, to answer your question.. if it were as simple as "Why not just use simbrief" then none of these other programs / options would exist 🙂    Rather than talking about the "why", I would love to hear from some people who use all of the above and what their experience has been.

Thanks so much,

T

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Create your IFR plans in Simbrief, this will include SID and Star procedures -> save Fltplan as  FSX/P3D .pln format(without SID and Star). Import into Littlenavmap, when loaded right click Depature airport -> select Show departure procedures. SID Procedures will show on the right of the Program. You can click any procedure with associated runway and a pictorial presentation of the route will show. Do the same for the arrival Airport (right click etc) show arrival procedures and STAR with associated runway will show. Just add these to the plan and then save in whichever format you want  for use in the Sim or Aircraft. The latest Beta version LNM 2.6 works in MSFS2020. It connects when whichever sim is running and the real time route is shown for later amended SID/STAR if needed.

Hope this makes sense, I'm a bit rushed at the moment.

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steve southey

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Hey thanks for this reply.  Yes, it all makes sense.  At this point I have done all kinds of different combos.  I guess it all comes down to personal preference and there is no wrong way to do any of this.

Simbrief, I don't see any SIDS / STAR selection.  So, from the start I have never cared much about selecting any plan it comes up with in the window.  I typically just ignore it and do the plan in a more robust application like Little Navmap, or Charts, or even in Pilot2ATC.  Being able to use the autoplan in those applications and then apply the SID / STAR (to me) is far better.  To be honest, in most cases Little Navmap is great on it's own as it has a nice live weather integration and I can see the active runways.  Simbrief is just another step that sometimes is not even needed (if I dont care about fuel estimates, and the other little details that a hardcore simmer would want).

My question is this..

WHY is there such issues with importing plans back and forth between Pilot2ATC, NG Charts, and Little Navmap when they all are on the same AIRAC?   It appears on the export from one application, and the import on another don't always match and this is what is frustrating. 

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Same question here, as I use Little Navmap for planning, P2A as ATC replacement (but for P3D).

In Little Navmap, I set "Save waypoints for approaches" and "Save waypoints for SID and STARs" to load the flightplan in P3D.

P2A loads the flight plan, throws some errors for Little Navmap created own user waypoints unknown to P2A (to represent SID/STAR/Intercepts) but I can file the flight plan in most cases.

Although it's not easy to understand why in these 38 years after the first release of a MS Flight Simulator neither Lockheed Martin nor MS/Asobo have enhanced the old point-to-point flight plan definitions...

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