Hi Guys,

just found this great site and signed up because I'm sure you folk can advise me.

I learnt to fly in Australia in the 80's (Cessna's, Gliders, Microlights - anything that got me off the ground really!) and came across the first MS sim around that time - just B&W wire-frame "graphics" (if you can even call it graphics) but although basic visuals I was very impressed (as a very inexperienced pilot) with the simulation engine of the software.

I've tried more modern flight sims since then but nothing from this century!   

I'm sure they've come a long way since then and I would light to build a decent flight simulator setup (I had a stroke a few years ago, so simulation is my best option ATM). My first questions;

1. A main concern I had with flight sim's which I haven't yet seen addressed was the "feel" of the aircraft - I bought myself MS's force feedback joystick but don't remember having much luck enhancing what I still feel could be the main weakness of any simulator - fancy graphics help with the illusion, but feeling the controls still seems to be a critical part of the simulation. What's the current "state of the art" here?
2. I have various PC's I can use (I work in IT) and they have adequate graphics cards for my basic needs - but I'm not a gamer. So I'm wondering if I need to invest in high-end graphics cards? (from reading around your forum, I get the impression, this is not critical - at least not to start with)
3. How many monitors are recommended to get a realistic experience or is VR already here or close? Other than control "feel" this as my other major gripe with early sims - real Pilots are continually looking around for other traffic, get their bearings, etc. Has this issue been addressed by the sims? any recommendations here?
4. Lastly, is Microsoft the best flight sim software to start with, or are there or products now that surpass?

As I mention in the title, I'm just wondering where to start right now, so I think that's it for now.  I'm sure I'll have more questions, but I also expect to find lots of useful info browsing your site.

Thanks in advance!

Nick

 

First up, welcome to Avsim. 🙂

One of the things you will need is a decent internet connection so that you can install the sim since most of those are quite large downloads these days. It's also recommended - but not strictly essential - that you install the sim onto an SSD rather than a traditional mechanical HD since this speeds up the load time. 

Let's consider the new MS Flight Simulator first up and then look at other choices too...

One thing you can do is sign up for a Microsoft Gamepass account for I think $1 (or £1 or whatever your currency equivalent is) and try out MSFS (the new Microsoft Flight simulator version which was released about five months ago). This is great because it means you can see if it runs on your computer for next to nothing. Thereafter if you like it, you can continue with the subscription for the Gamepass account (I think that's about a fiver per month), or you could cancel the subscription and buy the simulator to be free of the subscription model.

As noted however, it is a big download: The standard version is somewhere around 70Gbs in size, the Premium Deluxe version is around about 120Gbs in size and there's an intermediate version between the two which is I think somewhere around 95Gbs in size, so either way you need a reasonably decent internet connection to actually download and install the thing, and a fair bit of disk space to fit it on, but beyond this, it will only cost you a quid to find out if it runs okay on your machine. The good news here is that this new version of Microsoft Flight Simulator is able to run well on even a fairly modest PC, and of course if you try the sim out via this inexpensive access route and find it struggles, you will then know if you perhaps need to invest in a better PC or some better components for it.

You don't need a ton of monitors to get a decent experience, in fact one large one alone will do the trick, and the good news again is that large flat screen (and even curved screen) monitors are nowhere near as expensive as old CRT ones used to be, so a 27 inch monitor will be perfectly fine. You could also look at projectors, as these are a lot cheaper nowadays as well. You can use multiple monitors of course, but if I were you I'd stick with one to kick off with and worry about that later. Likewise, VR headsets are another option and they can be fun, but they can be expensive and they can also require quite a decent computer too, so again, I'd get the sim up and running on a regular PC first and then look into this later. Another cheaper option is head-tracking software and hardware, such as track-IR, which works well and is comparatively inexpensive and can even be free if you use stuff you already have such as a webcam to do the tracking.

Flight Simulator-wise as in the software, you have a number of choices. Visually, the new MS Flight Sim is undeniably the best looking one and this adds much to the feel of flying. Being new it has the odd issue and is receiving regular patches which are sorting it, so it's not a bad starting point at all and it gets better and better with each new patch and update and these come every couple of weeks or so. The best judge of this will be yourself, and it'll only cost you a quid to be able to do that.

XPlane is another possibility. This too is possible to try out cheaply, since there is a free demo of it. Visually it isn't quite up there with the new MS sim, but it is fair to say that it is still pretty good looking if you download all of the scenery available for it, but be prepared for this to take up a lot of space on a disk drive. There's nothing stopping you from trying it out though, since as noted, there is a free demo.

The other main contenders are the last preceding version of MS Flight Sim, which dates back to 2006 and was the tenth iteration of the simulator, hence its name of FSX (having been licensed to Dovetail Games and tarted up by them, it is now updated to FSX-SE and sold through the Steam gaming platform, usually costing about 20 quid or so, depending on whether they have a promotional sale on or not), and Prepar3D (AKA P3D), which again is an updated version of FSX in that it too uses the ESP platform upon which FSX was built, and is made by Lockheed Martin with the intention of it primarily being a professional training tool rather than an entertainment product.

The big difference between these two versions (FSX and P3D), is that FSX remains a 32 Bit application, and so it is somewhat 'frozen in time' and limited in how much memory it can use, whereas P3D is now a 64 Bit application, so after five main versions, it is now starting to look visually a lot different to FSX and its performance has improved on modern hardware. At about 20 quid, FSX is a cheap option to try out, P3D on the other hand is pretty pricey. both of these simulators have absolutely loads of available add-ons to enhance them, so they are good choices if you wanted to add some specific aeroplane type you are especially fond of flying.

There is another contender out there as well, and that's Aerofly FS2, which is also sold through the Steam platform. It performs well on a really modest computer, however it's limited in scope scenery-wise and aeroplane-wise too, and there are some features it lacks. It's worth a look, but I suspect it wouldn't be most people first choice.

After that you're into more specialised sims, all of which are pretty good - DCS World is a great air combat simulator platform which is free to try out and noted for being very realistic, so if you want to fly a MiG or a Spitfire and shoot at other people, this would float your boat. Condor 2 is a gliding simulator which is good looking and has lots of sceneries (pretty much everywhere in the world) and it simulates thermal, ridge, wave lift it looks good and runs well on a modest PC, so if gliding floats your boat, give it a look. Helicopter Simulator, is a new (beta) offering which presently only simulates on chopper type (the Robinson R22), but it is the best chopper sim there is, so if you like helicopters that's worth a look since it is only 20 quid.

Obviously there are other products out there too, but the above are the main ones people would consider. If you want a recommendation, I'd say try the $1 trial of the new MSFS and see if it floats your boat, and if not, then maybe try the free trial of XPlane, or stump up the 20 quid or so for FSX off Steam and give that a look.

Personally, I have all of these sims and more, and so I do use all of them, and there's nothing stopping you from doing that either, although it can get quite pricey to hitch yourself to several of them.

 

Edited January 31, 20215 yr by Chock

Hi Nick,

Personally if I had the proper equipment right now I would get the simulator known as P3D Version 5.

https://www.prepar3d.com/system-requirements/

Those are the basic system requirements.

Although that's often known as the best sim for airline type flights i.e. 777 or A330's. Microsoft Flight Simulator or the newest X plane version might also be good for general aviation with great scenery. I personally am still using FSX Steam Edition, and I pretty much only fly Boeing 777 and 747 airline type flights. It's a pretty old sim now, but the requirements aren't that high. The flight performance is still pretty good for payware aircraft.

So my opinion:

P3D V5 - overall best to get into right now

P3D V4 - good for somewhat lower specs (see system requirements)

MSFS - probably great for general aviation great scenery, but I'm not too familiar with it

X Plane - Probalby great too for scenery like flying through the Grand Canyon type flying

FSX Steam Edition - What I have, probably not recommended for anyone anymore getting into simming today, unless low cost is the priority

Flightgear https://www.flightgear.org/   (Flightgear might also be ok right at the beginning of getting back into simming, I've tried it, it's free)

 

Thank you so much guys for your comprehensive replies. I hope some other newbies find this info as useful as I did. 

I think I'll go with the MSFS trial for starters as minimal cost or commitment and then take it from there.

 

So my next question is regarding control equipment:

- Joystick (preferable to yoke)  Possibly force-feedback if they exist and work well? [not interested in fighter pilot stuff with gun/missile  triggers etc, but maybe trim would be handy and possibly throttle & other switches if they come combined?]

- Throttle & switches panel? (if not with throttle)

- Rudder pedals (I used to have CH Pro pedals and probably still got them in a box somewhere)

Basically I'll be flying the same aircraft in the sim as I used to fly (or want to fly!), so:
small aircraft (GA & Sports aircraft), microlights, Gyro-copters, gliders etc and most interested in getting as realistic a feel as possible.

Open to any ideas and recommendations here.

Again, thanks in advance!

Nick.

Laptop keyboard pilot here 😬    

Sorry, can't offer any advice. My gut feeling is to use a yoke, throttle, and rudder pedals for the flight controls, and then use the joystick just to adjust the views. Some Youtube videos are good to see some setups.

What controls you use to some extent depends on the budget you have. I'd recommend you go for some kind of HOTAS system (hands on throttle and stick). You can get usually a reasonably decent one for about 60 quid upwards, but better and more robust ones will be in the 200 quid range, although currently they are a bit thin on the ground as a result of the pandemic, with lots of people having bought up what stock there was when MSFS came out in August, so you might find yourself paying a bit more at the moment to get hold of something, so look on ebay as well as in online stores.

As with most things, the more you pay, usually the better things are, and if you want reliability and precision, then that ends up costing a bit more since such hardware invariably uses hall sensors rather than traditional switches and potentiometers. Personally, I use a Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS which I reviewed on my channel in the video below. It is on the cheap and cheerful side but it seems to do the job, you can find the more recent version of that controller for about 79 quid if you look around, for example here:

 

Edited January 31, 20215 yr by Chock

Control feel is going to be a weak point in any simulator, so I would not get my hopes up on that score..

Having said that, the illusion of flight is definitely getting better and better and you can trick your brain into believing you are in the cockpit, especially when you are in marginal weather conditions and looking for the runway ahead.

If you do not need IFR capabilities, P3D is probably not worth the effort.. but if one day you do, it is there to give you everything you need in that regard.

Chock gave you a pretty good rundown on what your current options are, but I would just make sure that you do indeed have the minimum PC requirements for MSFS.

Look for at least this:  16 GB of memory (RAM) and 8 GB of dedicated video memory (VRAM).   Then a dedicated 500 GB SSD to install MSFS on (SSDs are getting cheap these days).

Any USB joystick that you prefer, USB rudder pedals, and a throttle if the joystick does not already have that.. Personally, I prefer the CH Product USB Yoke as an "all in one" unit.

Why not just buy the MSFS standard edition... $60 is not going to bankrupt you, I would hope.

Edited January 31, 20215 yr by Bert Pieke

Once you have had a look at the default MSFS planes, the C172 and the Savage Cub come to mind, consider adding this as your first payware aircraft..

https://atsimulations.com/focke-wulf-149-msfs