PF3 not hearing my voice tramsmission

[Greg Goodavish 2]

I am new to MCE and PF3.  I have read all the posts on here about how to use the two together.  However, I am having issues with PF3 hearing my transmissions.   I set up a joystick button to be my transmission key.   I enabled the copilot to handle ATC if I am busy.  I say "I have ATC" when I start session, and copilot acknowledges.  In PF3, I have disabled the option to see the ATC codes, I have close captions enabled, and I have assigned a key for PTT (different than the one I use for MCE.  I use the CTRL key in PF3 and a joystick button in MCE).   When I set the clearance delivery frequency at EDDL, and try to contact them by saying "Speedbird 939, request IFR clearance to EGLL, with information Hotel",,  I get nothing.  I then tried "Clearance Delivery, request IFR clearance to EGLL, I have information Hotel, Speedbird 939.   Nothing.  I then tried pushing the PF3 PTT key, and releasing it, and then doing these commands, and nothing back from ATC.   Oh, I do have a pause of 10 seconds in PF3 when I push the PTT key in PF3, to ensure that ATC doesn't transmit when I am talking.   Still nothing.   I then ask my copilot to contact ATC for clearance, and he does.  ATC clearance responds back with our clearance. I try t respond by repearting the clearance, and nothing back from ATC.  I ask the copilot to respond, and he says "Speedbird 939", but nothing else.  No response from ATC.  Something is not right here.  I did do the tutorial and set up my mic properly, and have no problem talking to MCE, but for some reason, I cannot transmit to PF3.  Can anyone tell me where I might be going wrong?  I have the latest version of PF3, and version 2.9.2.6 of MCE.  Thedownload link for 2.93 for MCE does not work, so cannot download that.

[FS++ 708]

15 hours ago, Greg Goodavish said:

I am new to MCE and PF3.  I have read all the posts on here about how to use the two together.  However, I am having issues with PF3 hearing my transmissions.   I set up a joystick button to be my transmission key.   I enabled the copilot to handle ATC if I am busy.  I say "I have ATC" when I start session, and copilot acknowledges.  In PF3, I have disabled the option to see the ATC codes, I have close captions enabled, and I have assigned a key for PTT (different than the one I use for MCE.  I use the CTRL key in PF3 and a joystick button in MCE).   When I set the clearance delivery frequency at EDDL, and try to contact them by saying "Speedbird 939, request IFR clearance to EGLL, with information Hotel",,  I get nothing.  I then tried "Clearance Delivery, request IFR clearance to EGLL, I have information Hotel, Speedbird 939.   Nothing.  I then tried pushing the PF3 PTT key, and releasing it, and then doing these commands, and nothing back from ATC.   Oh, I do have a pause of 10 seconds in PF3 when I push the PTT key in PF3, to ensure that ATC doesn't transmit when I am talking.   Still nothing.   I then ask my copilot to contact ATC for clearance, and he does.  ATC clearance responds back with our clearance. I try t respond by repearting the clearance, and nothing back from ATC.  I ask the copilot to respond, and he says "Speedbird 939", but nothing else.  No response from ATC.  Something is not right here.  I did do the tutorial and set up my mic properly, and have no problem talking to MCE, but for some reason, I cannot transmit to PF3.  Can anyone tell me where I might be going wrong?  I have the latest version of PF3, and version 2.9.2.6 of MCE.  Thedownload link for 2.93 for MCE does not work, so cannot download that.

It does look like this is caused by you not adhering to proper phraseology. Let me explain...

MCE tries to adhere to ATC good phraseology practice so that it can be used as a training tool for real world pilots.

Many flight simmers think it's OK to say "Speedbird 939 request taxi".

While you will certainly get away with at regional airports with so little traffic that the controller knows well ahead that YOU will be getting in touch at any time, it's not the case at major hubs like Heathrow or JFK.

The proper ATC verbiage for all requests should follow this rule

station_you_are_calling + your_call_sign + Some_request verbiage_variation + actual_request.

So, why should it be this way

As soon as you utter "station_you_are_calling", all aircraft in the vicinity will know instantly, not to bother with the message and the controller it is intended for, will get himsel focused to next catch who is calling (your_callsign) and eventually get the request right, first time.

Unless you're calling another plane, which is very rare, starting a message with the callsign is the prerogative of ATC controllers only. That way, other planes will know it's not intended for them and it draws your attention.

 

At Heathrow, starting with "Speedbird 939" would very likely get you a "station calling say again".

Similarly, acknowledgments, should follow this rule

acknowledge_whatever + call_sign (like "clear to land Speedbird 939" and NOT "Speedbird 939 clear to land")

Now here is the thing. Because very few people are aware of that, intitially, the MCE speech grammars were perceived to be rigid in that any request you initiate with callsign won't be recognized.

Over the years, we bowed to flight simmers need to say anything and so we reluctantly made it possible to say

call_sign + request taxi

call_sign ready for takeoff

We haven't done it for clearance request though, and that's why your speech isn't meeting any speech rule.

Instead of   "Speedbird 939, request IFR clearance to EGLL, with information Hotel

Use:   "clearance delivery Speedbird 939, request IFR clearance to EGLL"

"delivery Speedbird 939, request IFR clearance to EGLL"

"Dusseldorf delivery Speedbird 939, is ready to copy atc clearance"

"Dusseldorf delivery Speedbird 939, with information Hotel, standing by for ATC"

etc...

etc... lots of other variations

 

Contact support for the download link regarding latest version. Not that is matters for this particular issue as the ATC side of the app  hasn't been touched for many months.

Edited July 16, 2021 by FS++

[Greg Goodavish 2]

Ok, thank you.  I will give that a try and will report back.

[Greg Goodavish 2]

OK, using PF3 with no pilots voice set, and VCP mode of 0, I tried another flight with MCE and PF3.  Flew from CYVR to CYYC, as ACA 204.  With MCE, I used the default Delete key to transmit, to ensure a key binding was not messing things up.  Here is how it went:

I called "Clearance delivery, Air Canada 204, request IFR clearance to Calgary".    Clearance delivery responded with my clearance.  I repeated the clearance back, verbatim, and put Air Canada 204 at the end.   Did not here from Clearance Delivery that my readback was correct or what frequency to contact ground on.   I tried the readback again, this time putting Air Canada 204 at the front of the readback.   Still no response.  I asked the MCE first officer to respond to ATC,and he just said Air Canada 204, but did not give the readback.  Still nothing from Clearance Delivery.   I went ahead and pushed and started engines.   I switched to ground freq, and called "Ground, request taxi, Air Canada 204".  No response.  I then tried "Ground, request taxi clearance, Air Canada 204".   Still no response.   I then asked my MCE FO to get taxi clearance, and he did so, and got a response from ground.   I have no idea what I am doing wrong, but am getting frustrated, as the main reason I purchased MCE was to be able to have voice control with PF3.   Help!!!!

[FS++ 708]

Need to use "Ground, Air Canada 204 request taxi, " and NOT "Ground, request taxi, Air Canada 204"

Remember the rule

station_you_are_calling + your_call_sign_right_here + Some_request verbiage_variation + actual_request.

It's nothing to do with poor speech recognition or accent.

The ATC specific speech grammars have been designed to catch request elated speech that starts with some_station_you_are_calliing, then your_call_sign, plus whatever_you_are_asking_for at the end.

Just like real world pilots or wannabes have to go through a lwearning curve, you have to undersatand ATC phraseology has some good practice rules.

There is one important thing you need to do in order to get MCE FO voice utter whatever PF3 instruction is.

Go to PF3 installation folder and open "PF3_MCE.ini"

Ensure "Active=1"

With that option enabled, PF3 will output clearances to \PF3\Logs\ folder "Clearance.log". MCE Fo would be notified and read the last clearance from that file. This is why right now he's only speaking the call sign.

[Greg Goodavish 2]

OK, thanks for the input.  What is the correct way for me to respond after I get the Clearance from Clearance Delivery?  Same format as you show above?  I tried that, and got no response back from Clearance that my readback was correct.

[FS++ 708]

18 hours ago, Greg Goodavish said:

OK, thanks for the input.  What is the correct way for me to respond after I get the Clearance from Clearance Delivery?  Same format as you show above?  I tried that, and got no response back from Clearance that my readback was correct.

By far, the most challenging of all replies because like in the real worl, one has to acknowledge up to six or seven items, and can be in any order.

Building a spech grammar that can catch all is nearly impossible, but we have covered the vast majority of them.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that when replying, you should utter the call_sign at the end. You also need to speak swiftly (with not too much hesitation), otherwise, speech engine may assume you're done with your speech and and try to match what you said thus far to MCE ATC built-in speech rules. With guaranteed failure.

So, here is the kind of tokens one would acknowledge and not necessarily in this order

Ideally, start with any of these (optional)

roger, clear to XXXX

copy clear to XXXX

roger, copy, clear to XXXX

clear to XXXX

XXXX can be "destination", ICAOID like "Echo Golf Lima Lima"

Optionally uther some of these

as filed

as planned

via flight plan route

Acknowledge assigned altitude (good ATC practice requires you acknowledge this). Speech grammar will be tolerant)

climb flight level XXX

climb altitude XXXXX

 

Acknowledge squawk (good ATC practice requires you acknowledge this). Speech grammar will be tolerant)

squawk XXXX

transponder code XXXX

With the above in mind, here are a few possible valid ATC messages.

 

Copy, clear to destination, as filed, climb flight level two three zero, squawk three four six seven Air Canada two zero four

Roger, we are clear to Charlie Yankee Uniform Lima, squawk three four six seven, climb altitude six thousand, Air Canada two oh four

The shorter (like above) the better, even though the speech grammar can catch more elaborate messages like...

Roger, we are clear to Charlie Yankee Uniform Lima, via flight plan route, climb altitude six thousand, expect flight level two four zero ten minutes after departure, contact departure on XXXX.XXX when airborn, squawk three four six seven Air Canada two zero four

You probably used one the the very verbose messages and it's those that can be tricky.

MCE doesn't use dictation where you can say anything and then it miraculously interprets what you say.

It's a set of "speech rules" that we submit to the spech engine. The latter tells us if what the user uttered "sounds like" what the speech rule expects.

This is why, all acknowledgments must have Call_sign at the end of the sentence. Because the built-in MCE ATC specific speech grammar expects it that way. Otherwise, either nothing will get recognized, or worse, speech engine will catch something else that vaguely "sounds like" what you uttered.

It's not issues with accents at all.

Unlike dictation, the Command and control side of speech engine works very well (even on a 1 GHZ CPU), and for non native English speakers as well. It can even understand non-English talk. It's just that with ATC and the need to prepare future pilots or flight simmers to go on say Vatsim with confidence, by enforcing the ATC jargon rules, the speech grammar is perceived to be less flexible than say the other speech grammars we have for co-pilot interaction, where you could say pretty much anything you want and have the co-pilot understand you.

Just in case you missed it, this thread is probably the best there is to learn about MCE + PF3 integration.

I'm sure, Ralph, who knows both programs very well, can help you make the most of them, when you eventually stumble across something not covered in this thread.

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by FS++

[Greg Goodavish 2]

Thank you for the help.  Will keep working at it.  It is getting better. 🙂