Preliminary Feedback

[Sandro Vitalini 3]

10 hours ago, SophisDriver said:

Hi Bryan,

    I think training video is necessary especially for the fresh people like me.

I agree. Or atleast a short manual guiding us trough a full flight. I would call me "tech savy" and im good at figuring things out at my own, but i was really confused yesterday with this software and did not find a manual. Yes, the Assist window is a great way to learn the software, but my very first impression was a bit "meh.." i found it it would be easier for me to just do it all by myself than trying this software to take some workload from me.

I guess there is a bit of a learning curve, but new users should get a short guide to know what the software CAN do and what not and what we have to expect. Maybe i just expected something different... The official Intro-video was pretty non-saying, so i just jumped in to see what it is about.

My first issues:
- Speak recognition in Win10 is a bit**... yes, i found the link to the recommended settings, but still, i needed to do more Win10 configuration than mentioned to get it to work.
- FS2CREW is not recognising the very complex voice command "ON"... no matter in what strange ways i try to speak this very complex phrase, it refuses to recognise it... 🙂
The same goes for "ON AND AUTO" and "ON AUTO" and every combination the word "ON" is used first. Somehow, "CHECKED AND SET" is easier to understand for FS2CREW.
- Why can i give the command "APU ON" but not "APU BLEED ON"? Makes no sense to me to tell my FO to start the APU but i have to manually avtivate APU Bleed.

- Why is there no voice command for "preliminary cockpit preparation"? It is a useful feature to let the FO get electricy to the plane but i dont understand why i have to do that manually by starting the flow? The amount of buttons i have to click to get the flow started, i could just do the preliminary setup mysels... makes no sense to me, or i did not find the correct voice command.

- Is there no way that i read the checklist and the FO will push the buttons? That would be great, even if it might not be by the SOP...

EDIT, some more things id like to change:
- Also, there is a button to make the windows of PBE and A32NX smaller, however, if you push this, it just cuts off the Windows somewhere and it looks horrible.
The minimising button should minimise the windows to just a small "Dot" or something, and when we push that, it should go back to its full size. Adding a button just to make it smaller, but it then only gets about a quarter smaller and looks like cut off, is not what i would expect from this button and makes no sense to waste space for a button that just reduces the window by about the same space this button takes. 🙂
 

- I try to eliminate the use of Keyboar as much as possible in my "cockpit". There should be options to set the button commands to a joystick instead of only keyboard buttons. There really should be a solution for that. Makes no sense to use advanced hardware that is available for Flightsimmers but then we have to use a keyboar when we have dozens of buttons available on our peripherals. Yes, there are ways around it, but it just should be in the soiftware by default.

- Im using a 35" 3440x1440 Ultrawide monitor. The panels of PBE and A32NX are VERY small, i can barely read whtat it says on the buttons. We should be able to change the window size of these panels. Im sure there are lots of peoples with way bigger screens and i cant imagine how they would read the stuff.

Again, i dont want to be too picky but im a bit more confused to get this software to do what i would like than i should be. A short guide and explanation what i CAN do and CAN NOT do, would be helpful. 🙂

EDIT2:

- Somewhere on the Assist panel it showed that one of the Triggers to activate the next phase is "RADAR ON", however, what is "RADAR ON"? Is it "TERR ND ON" or "TCAS TA/RA"`? I dont know about a "RADAR ON"  button in A320. These triggers should be more clear and match the actual description of the A320 in the cockpit.

Also these trigger-lists should be dynamic and have a checkmark next to them or disappear when the trigger is matched, so i actually know if im missing a trigger or not. I find myself looking at the panel way too much to understand where i am and where i should be.
 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Sandro Vitalini
Added more things that i think would be worth changing

[byork 2,260]

I'll try to answer this list 🙂

1. Speech recognition:  I answered that in your other thread.

2. No voice command for "Start Preliminary Cockpit Preparation".  We're an Airbus crew simulation.  We're not trying to be Voice Buddy.  If the pilot generally wouldn't say it in the real world, we don't model it.  Our FO does this stuff automatically.

3. APU Bleed On voice command:  Look at list of available voice commands in the Info Center panel.  You can see what's available.  If there are any commands you'd like added, I can add them so long as they're realistic.

But again, we're not Voice Buddy.  And it's not good to over clutter a voice recognition app with too many unnecessary commands due to possible false voice detection issues.

Switches are generally moved via flows... You generally don't tell the other guy "turn this on, turn that off".. but I say that in general.

For example, turning the APU Bleed On is part of the FO's "parking flow".  The FS2Crew FO will automatically turn on the Apu Bleed if the Apu is detected as running.  That's Airbus standard.

So you don't need to tell him to turn on the APU... he just does it automatically in his flow.
 

4. Read the Checklist and the FO will press the buttons:   Nope, won't do it.  Unless you're dealing with non-normals, it's usually goes flow first, then backup the critical points the checklist.

It's not a like a Cessna 172.

5. Windows size:  I'd need to see a screen shot.  Maybe it renders differently on your setup than mine.

But the panel is very scalable as you know.  Click the button that says "FBW" or "PBE" on the top left.  That will reduce the panel size to a very, very small size.

You can also press the Hide Panel (green star icon), which hides the upper panel and only shows the lower panel.

I really went to some things to try to allow users to control the screen real estate.

Of course the more you know the program, the more of the panel you can hide because you don't need any more.


6. Joystick buttons:  Already explained.  You can use FSUIPC to do the job.  MSFS Simconnect has a known bug that prevents developers from detecting when a joystick button has been released.  That's the only reason we can't add direct joystick buttons for things like PTT.  We're hoping Asobo fixes it.

But again, just use FSUIPC if it's critical for you.

6. Panel size:  It may be possible to allow users to adjust.  We'd have to research that.

7. Complexity:   If you're new to FS2Crew, which I think you are, I strongly suggest starting with Button Control.  Button Control is much simpler because you're basically just following a path and it's hard to get off it.  Voice control is more realistic, but to its nature its also more complex.


8. RADAR ON / TARA:   Those are FO flow items, and they're not trigger points.  Those aren't in the Flow Assist panel.  I think you're looking at the INFO CENTER and you're looking at the list of FO Flow Actions, which is there basically written there to serve as informational guide only.  

I'd personally just keep the Info Center closed while you're busy or it could just confuse you while you're learning the software.

What matters to you what's in the FLOW ASSIST box, CHECKLIST ASSIST and VOICE COMMAND ASSIST.

Just follow that 😉

But as mentioned, I suggest starting in Button Control... you can how the system works with respects to flows, etc.  Then once you've got a handle on the system, move up to Voice Control.








 

[Sandro Vitalini 3]

Yes im a new FS2CREW user, i hoped for a short introduction or a manual, but there was none. So i had to figure things out myself, using the assistant menu, but still, i was a bit overwhelmed as i could not really find a "flow" how to use the program. It all seemed to be a bit "messy". I hoped for a bit more streamlined way to get things done that are less confusing and get me to fly using the sowftware. Instead i was sitting on ground figuring things out. Im the guy that reads manuals and wants to understand something before i just jump in. I have a desperate need to "know everything" as soon as possible before i can enjoy something like a program as this. But this clearly did not work out as i was expecting. LOL
And yes, i got a bit frustrated as this usually does not happen to me that i tried for hours but in the end i was more figuring things out with windows speech recognition, re-setup Mic levels that worked for everything but for FS2CREW and to get the exe.XML issue fixed and i had not realyl time left to enjoy the program.

But however, im thankful you are taking your time to explain things and the philosphy behind FS2CREW and that everything seems to come together.
Im starting from scratch now with a fresh mindset and give it another try and hope i can find enjoyment in this tool in the end. 🙂

[byork 2,260]

If you're new to FS2Crew, it's going to take you several attempts before it starts to make sense.

Most of our customers are all repeat customs, so they generally understand the philosophy and concept of triggers, flows and checklists.

Give it time.  Start with button control.

We're trying do it realistically, so you're not going to get it perfect on the first shot.

Remember when the guys are training for their Airbus TRs in the real world, they're gonna screw up in the beginning too.  

Edited August 17, 2021 by byork

[MarkW 1,498]

Did a full flight tonight. Generally worked very Well and as expected. A few minor issues. 
 

1. during taxi the FA asked if she could board pax. Then pax boarding sounds stared. I did answer “no” to the request to try and stop,it. 
 

2. the voice recognition is odd. I tried with no key just open and nothing seemed to work. Strange because everything works great in P3D. I then added a key but strangely during checklists it recognized most items without pressing the key. Is this normal?

3. I think approach checklist is missing from the screen reminders. It did not show up in the list. I know it so ran the checklist but should be added to the screen. 
 

I am still amazed by the new setup, wish this was in place for all legacy products.  

[byork 2,260]

19 minutes ago, MarkW said:

Did a full flight tonight. Generally worked very Well and as expected. A few minor issues. 
 

1. during taxi the FA asked if she could board pax. Then pax boarding sounds stared. I did answer “no” to the request to try and stop,it. 
 

2. the voice recognition is odd. I tried with no key just open and nothing seemed to work. Strange because everything works great in P3D. I then added a key but strangely during checklists it recognized most items without pressing the key. Is this normal?

3. I think approach checklist is missing from the screen reminders. It did not show up in the list. I know it so ran the checklist but should be added to the screen. 
 

I am still amazed by the new setup, wish this was in place for all legacy products.  

Hi Mark,

1. All I can think of is that ran the Pre Flight events and you started taxiing before the time went down to 0.
Is that possible?  Maybe you accidently started the Pre Flight events?  

Because the only way the FA can ask you if she can start boarding is if the Pre Flight events are running.

2. When setting open mic mode, sometimes you have to restart the app to make it kick in especially if you try to do it in the middle of checklist.  We'll work to improve that.

3. Problem with the Approach Checklist is there's no real hard and fast time when to run it.  It can vary.  In V1.1, I'll just add it to the list as reminder and uses can call for it whenever whenever they feel it.

Glad you like the interface method...  Obviously we can't go back and re-do everything from FSX and P3D.

But future MSFS FS2Crew's will feature the same style, but we're always refining it of course.

[MarkW 1,498]

8 hours ago, byork said:

Hi Mark,

1. All I can think of is that ran the Pre Flight events and you started taxiing before the time went down to 0.
Is that possible?  Maybe you accidently started the Pre Flight events?  

Because the only way the FA can ask you if she can start boarding is if the Pre Flight events are running.

 

Either scenario is possible as I am just getting used to the interface.  Will try it again soon.

[foxmike80 1]

On 8/17/2021 at 7:26 PM, byork said:

2. No voice command for "Start Preliminary Cockpit Preparation".  We're an Airbus crew simulation.  We're not trying to be Voice Buddy.  If the pilot generally wouldn't say it in the real world, we don't model it.  Our FO does this stuff automatically.

I second the request for a command to start the preliminary cockpit preparation. In the real world I would definitely say "Hello" or "Good morning" to my colleague. How about that for a voice command to trigger the event? 

 

[foxmike80 1]

On 8/16/2021 at 6:36 AM, AntonioK said:

• I DEEPLY miss the "mute key" functionality. Am I right in that it doesn't exist in this version? I know there's a push to talk button assignment, but that would just make focusing and communicating to ATC online a nightmare. If it doesn't exist, what's the feasibility of it coming back? Even if I'm eating while its running in the background it just "check"'s incessantly. 

And I also and totally agree to this suggestion. A mute key is much more convenient when using it on VATSIM. Just talk to your FO like you would in real life and press the button when you talk to ATC - we could then also assign the same button as PTT for VATSIM and mute for FS2Crew. So when you talk to ATC FS2Crew is automatically muted.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Ray Proudfoot
Reply embedded in the quote moved outside it.

[byork 2,260]

27 minutes ago, foxmike80 said:

 

It would need to be something informal and easy to remember.  Longer phrases are better than single words for voice detection.

How about "Let's get setup".
 

[byork 2,260]

20 minutes ago, foxmike80 said:

And I also and totally agree to this suggestion. A mute key is much more convenient when using it on VATSIM. Just talk to your FO like you would in real life and press the button when you talk to ATC - we could then also assign the same button as PTT for VATSIM and mute for FS2Crew. So when you talk to ATC FS2Crew is automatically muted.

That's true if you're using open mic mode... but the problem with open mic mode is false detection due to ambient sound.

[foxmike80 1]

I understand. In my case I am alone in a room and can control ambient sound. So it would be nice the to have the option. I'm in the middle of my first "real" flight after testing a lot yesterday and I must say I am impressed. How much this adds to immersion - thanks a lot for that great addon.

[Commander_K 2]

hi,

with the A320 Button Control, when I started the PRE Events the jetway connected automatically.
has this feature been removed in the new one?

[byork 2,260]

Yes, we removed it to prevent conflicts with PBE.

 

[Commander_K 2]

On 8/19/2021 at 8:43 PM, byork said:

It would need to be something informal and easy to remember.  Longer phrases are better than single words for voice detection.

How about "Let's get setup".
 

didn't A320 button control Pre Preperation Timer start with "let's start setting up" answered by "ok"

i think this would be perfect