Yesterday I noted a few anomalies in a taxi route I was given in a couple of airports from P2A. These were the instructions for a route at KHOU:

"Kodiak Seven Eight Five Taxi to Runway Two Two Via taxiways Golf, Hotel, Zulu, Alpha,  Hold Short Runway Zero Four, and Runway One Three Right, and Runway One Three Right, and Runway Two Two."

The route given here, G H Z A, is correct (though A may have become Y now), but the runway crossings are wrong. This route never crosses 04. It does cross the old 17 at this point, but that doesn't appear to be active any more. Also the route crosses 13R only once. The third crossing should be 13L.

I looked at the airport with Taxiway Maintenance, but that doesn't tell me where these errors came from. Runway 17 is correctly named. 13L and 13R are 12L and 12R in the database. Runway 04 is far away from the specified route.

The other airport was KFTW. ATC gave me "Kodiak Seven Eight Five Taxi to  General Aviation Parking  Via taxiways Golf, Hotel,  Hold Short Runway Three Four." to route me. The route is okay, but neither Golf or Hotel cross a runway.

This occurred with the previous beta version of P2A, not the one made available yesterday. 

Thanks for the report.  I'll check it out.

Dave

Looks like the problem at KHOU is that RW35/17 no longer exists but is still in the TaxiMnt data.  So when the controller can't find RW35, it uses the nearest RW, which is 04.

The instructions obtained were:  Twin Commander One Victor Bravo Taxi to Runway Two Two Via taxiways Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta,  Hold Short Runway Zero Four, and Runway One Three Right, and Runway Zero Four, and Runway Three One Right, and Runway Two Two.

If you change 04 to 35, the instructions are correct, given the data.  If you remove RW35 and all the RW35 HoldShort taxi points and all the taxiways along and connecting to RW35 from the TaxiMnt data, then you get: Twin Commander One Victor Bravo Taxi to Runway Two Two Via taxiways Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta,  Hold Short Runway One Three Right, and Runway Zero Four, and Runway Three One Right, and Runway Two Two.

At KFTW, the problem is a little simpler.  If you are a little too close to the runway when you call for taxi to the Gate/Ramp, you might get the Hold Short for the runway you are near caught up in the route.

See the Hold Short point right near the plane.  That would be a Hold for RW34 and it obviously got into the TaxiRoute.  There is logic in the program to try and avoid this, but it sometimes fails.

Dave

 

Okay, I understand everything, except for this part of my taxiway instructions: "and Runway One Three Right, and Runway One Three Right,"

I was told to hold short of runway 13R twice. The instructions you were given also doubled up on 13R: "and Runway One Three Right, and Runway Zero Four, and Runway Three One Right."

The second instance in both examples should have been 13L.

31R is the same as 13L.  It's closer to the 31R end of the runway and so the name at that end is 31R.

I have made a tweak to avoid the use of non-existent runways like 35 in KHOU's case.

Dave

You're right about your instructions, but mine still read 13R and 13R (not 31R). This is a cut and paste from the ATC conversation starting with ATC to the pilot:

Kodiak Seven Eight Five Taxi to Runway Two Two Via taxiways Golf, Hotel, Zulu, Alpha,  Hold Short Runway Zero Four, and Runway One Three Right, and Runway One Three Right, and Runway Two Two
~ Taxi to Runway Two Two Via taxiways Golf, Hotel, Zulu, Alpha,  Hold Short Runway Zero Four, and Runway One Three Right, and Runway One Three Right, and Runway Two Two Kodiak Seven Eight Five
 Taxi to Runway Two Two via Taxiways Golf Hotel Zulu Alpha Hold Short Runway Zero Four and Runway One Three Right and Runway One Three Right and Runway Two Two Kodiak Seven Eight Five;

Was that caused by the missing runway?

Edited February 12, 20224 yr by GilYoder

Hopefully the tweak in the next Public Beta update will fix that.  It worked for me at KHOU, but you are getting different taxiways, so I can't be sure.

If the next beta doesn't fix it, if you save your KHOU taxiways and send me the file, I can import it and see what's going wrong.

Dave

Edited February 12, 20224 yr by Dave-Pilot2ATC

The update Public Beta 2k is posted now.

Let us know how it goes.

Dave

I'll give it a try. FWIW I have been using the default KHOU data. I haven't made any changes to it.

Dave, it seems to be stuck at this point after requesting to taxi:

I have been waiting at least two or three minutes for a reply.

It did however calculate a route.

Edited February 13, 20224 yr by GilYoder

I'm having the same problem, after receiving my clearance I asked for taxi instructions but no response after several attempts! I switched back to version 2j and all is fine!

Thanks for the reports.  I'll work on it.

Dave

The bug causing ATC to hang up in Beta 2k should be fixed in Beta 2l that I just posted to the web site.

And, of course, this taxi instruction bug should also be fixed.

Dave

I'm downloading and testing it now. Thanks!

Beta 2I appears to resolve all the issues that concerned me at KHOU. I created a quick IFR route from KHOU to KFTW forcing ATC to use runway 22 for my departure. I spawned at ramp 92 near the south west corner, and then got my clearance and taxi instructions. This is what ATC gave me:

"Kodiak Seven Eight Five Taxi to Runway Two Two Via taxiways Hotel, Zulu, Alpha,  Hold Short Runway One Three Right, and Runway One Three Left, and Runway Two Two."

No mention of the old runway or a replacement for it, and correct reference to both 13R and 13L.

That's perfect! Thanks.