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Shaka

Totally stupid!

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Gents and Ladies,I just tried to buy a CD via iTunes. The album created by Dizzy Mizz Lizzy, a danish group. As I live in Canada I could only register in Canada. But trying to buy the DML album gave me an error: "You can only buy albums in the Canadian store" and the DML album was only available in the Danish store. What's the deal? The publisher don't want to broaden their group's audience? Yeah I guess that makes a lot of marketing sense. "Let's keep people from buying our stuff and we'll make more money"I bought their first album and took it with me to the other shore of the pond. Noone told me I couldn't. Maybe I should have told the big label?So I guess it comes down to big labels (Who doesn't care about the small bands anyway) ... Now that's food for thought. I wonder... How do these small bands get their name out?...No wonder people copy from friends.... I bought the first MDL album and would love to have the second album. Now I'll ask a friend to get me a copy.Upset greetings,Mats

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"No wonder people copy from friends.... I bought the first MDL album and would love to have the second album. Now I'll ask a friend to get me a copy"Sounds like you don't like this band too much if you're here suggesting piracy is your only recourse. What is this post really about? Another rationalization for piracy? That's the way I read it. Because honestly, I don't think members who frequent Avsim and Hangar Chat are the audience that would petition the record company and labels to promote this group--there's a number of venues where you can start. Here, the thread just seems to fall in lockstep with the recent thread where members I used to respect are thinking of all sorts of ways to rationalize media piracy.-JohnP.S. Flame away, folks

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Why don't you just buy the cd? You say it worked for you with the first album.And I agree that itunes is not yet all it should be. But there are probably complicated negotioations with national branches of the record companies in every country where they open an itunes store and i guess the licenses are restricted to a certain area to control prices and avoid stepping on toes.-

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distribution rights, taxes, marketing decisions, any number of reasons.As someone else said, it looks like you're just looking for an excuse to justify in your own mind your decision to pirate the music instead of paying for it.Remember that iTunes stores in different countries are more or less independent.I can fully understand the Canadian subsidiary not stocking a virtually unheard of (certainly outside Denmark) Danish group. The turnover would be too small to warrant the investment.

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>I can fully understand the Canadian subsidiary not stocking a>virtually unheard of (certainly outside Denmark) Danish group.>The turnover would be too small to warrant the investment.What investment? It's a freaking DOWNLOAD store. They don't have to give up shelf space, warehouse space, capital, or anything else. They just have to put it on their servers. That cost can be recouped with just a few downloads.There's absolutely no technological or economic reason why iTunes shouldn't carry every band ever published, and I'm sure they would if the recording industry would let them. The orignal poster has a legitimate gripe: online music could be so much more than it currently is. Think about it: Napster first hit the scene almost SEVEN YEARS AGO. Back then, I could download just about any song I could think of. Yes, the fact that nobody got paid for these downloads was a serious problem, but can you believe that it's been SEVEN years, and we still don't have a legal download system that is as good as Napster?Don't jump down this guy's throat for suggesting that maybe he might want to grab an unauthorized copy of this CD. To do so is just missing the point of this topic entirely.

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"Don't jump down this guy's throat for suggesting that maybe he might want to grab an unauthorized copy of this CD. To do so is just missing the point of this topic entirely."His suggesting an action that's morally and legally wrong doesn't land him on the moral high ground. Just because we can't get things "our way" doesn't mean we can do and especially promote to others the wrong thing to get what we want. But let's say for the sake of argument that the only way he'll get the music the artist offers is by grabbing a pirate copy. Why come into a flight simulation site and advertise that fact? Why isn't he ranting on a music site?Why not just leave the "I guess I'll have to copy my friend's CD" piece off? I consider that a threat--a "give me what I want, or else" threat. It doesn't belong here.-John

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Napster hit the scene by illegally distributing music they collected at no cost to them (except serverspace) from their users.They couldn't care less about intellectual property rights or other legal niceties, and neither could their users (like you).iTunes works legally, and has to negotiate per country they're distributing in a contract with the respective record companies (which may differ per artist per country, sometimes even per record per artist per country).That all costs time and money, and if there's not enough money to be made to recover the investment (like negotiating a record deal with a Danish company for a single customer) it doesn't get done, period.His point is exactly (and so is yours) that anything you don't like is a perfectly good excuse to steal.Maybe I'll try that some time. I'd love to have a shiny new Focus, but they're just too expensive. So if I steal one I get what is rightfully mine because I want it and punish the evil Ford Motor Company and their cronies in the dealer network at the same time for overpricing their products. Must be perfectly fine as it gets me what I want, right?

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>His point is exactly (and so is yours) that anything you don't>like is a perfectly good excuse to steal.I'm sorry. I must not have explained myself very well. Let me try again.His point, and mine, is that the technology is here to allow everyone around the world to access all kinds of music (and soon, movies and television) instantaneously, without all the added cost and complexity of physically distributing media, but the powers that be (the ones who control the complex distribution of said media) are doing everything in their power to keep that technology from reaching its potential. Yes, I downloaded music from Napster back in the day. I am not ashamed of that. It was convenient, and it was cool. I didn't do it to save money on CDs, in fact I probably bought more CDs during that time than ever before (because I got more excited about music in general). I did it because I'm passionate about technology and I couldn't pass up the chance to take advantage of a fun, new Internet gizmo.These days, I buy music from iTunes. That's why I share the same frustrations as the original poster. When I look at iTunes, I see an innovative way for all kinds of music to be exposed to the masses, everything from Taylor Hicks to obscure Dutch bands. And when obsolete business models stand in the way, it really is a shame.

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>Why not just leave the "I guess I'll have to copy my friend's>CD" piece off? I consider that a threat--a "give me what I>want, or else" threat. It doesn't belong here.I'm sure if he knew that everyone was going to latch onto that one statement and completely ignore the rest of his post, he wouldn't have said it. I don't think he meant it as a threat. My interpretation is that he was explaining how the music industry is shooting themselves in the foot--by not offering it for download legitimately, they are just making it easier to steal. It's a valid point.As far as why it is appropriate here on AVSim, well, the guy has a very large post count. I'm guessing he's been here a while, and considers everyone here friends. Is it not understandable to vent frustrations to friends?

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"As far as why it is appropriate here on AVSim, well, the guy has a very large post count. I'm guessing he's been here a while, and considers everyone here friends. Is it not understandable to vent frustrations to friends?"Ya got me on that one. I am guilty of all of the above.When the RIAA in their wisdom managed put the brakes on file sharing and P2P, they didn't factor in one issue. There's a huge volume of music that is out of print. Napster, much as it hurt the music industry, also made available a library of out of print music that hasn't been seen since. The recording industry wants to protect copyright, but also artists get buried that aren't "in tune" with some of the junk the industry promotes today. I often seek out artists from 30 or 40 years ago in the few remaining used vinyl shops around Phoenix, but the searches prove fruitless. Such artists were common on P2P sites. Problem is, the fans that shared the out of print stuff also shared the stuff you could still buy. Artists lost sources of income.I honestly think that one way to cut piracy in the music industry is to make available every song ever recorded and for those artists no longer alive or with music no longer in print, pool the income received and distribute it to all artists as part of a means to insulate them from the piracy that does exist. I would be the first to line up to buy CD's from obscure Artists like Eric Tagg, Airplay and not so obscure artists like Cutting Crew, etc, that are out of print today.It's just a thought--might as well offer the thread some good.-John

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I've had this problem too. What it came down to is that the Canadian (in my case) "store" is a different "store" than the regular ITunes site. So, if a particular band hasn't made an arrangement for a Canadian distributor then the Canadian Itunes site can't distribute it. It may be that there is a pre-existing arrangement with another download site which prevents it. The fact that the site is virtual and can be accessed by anyone in the world with an internet connection is irrelevant.In my case, Apple didn't have the rights to sell and distribute the songs in Canada, so they won't.- Martin

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so, just because the technology is there to do it illegally iTunes should be mandated (by whom actually, last I checked there was no world government) to make everything ever created available as well?only way for them to do that was to go illegal themselves...

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You have to go to the bottom of the iTunes store page and select that you're from Canada, then it'll let you purchase. The band dosn't restrict what countries their music can be sold in--why would they? However, some bands don't have an agreement with iTunes. The Beatles just finished a lawsuit with Apple over the Apple trademark so now iTunes may carry Beatle songs, but until now they haven't because there was no agreement for them to do so. But in general I agree. We're still pretty new into the downloadable music business but it will get better. And Apple needs to do something about iTunes. If you look at running processes after booting you'll see 2 apps running that together are about 10mb. One is an iPod helper--which runs even if you don't have an iPod, and the other has to do with iTunes itself. And there is no warning at installation that I noticed that tells you these applications are going to be run all the time. billg

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>You have to go to the bottom of the iTunes store page and>select that you're from Canada, then it'll let you purchase.>The band dosn't restrict what countries their music can be>sold in--why would they? Not true - for example, "Richard Cheese" is available on the U.S. Store, but not the Canadian one. I have accounts on both, since I used to live in the U.S. and originally used my U.S. credit card to sign up. I don't think it is because the band wishes to restrict where they sell their music (like you sy, why would they?). I think that it's just they don't have any distribution agreement set up for Canada, so the iTunes (Canada) store can't legally sell it. Granted, for most mainstream music this isn't an issue, but for independent and foreign music it seems to be less likely to make it on to the Canadaian site. Here's a couple screenshots of the Canadian and U.S. sites after I searched for "Richard Cheese".http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/151282.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/151283.jpg- Martin

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