12th gen i5 build

[ckyliu 1,749]

My i5 2500K OC is now starting to struggle a bit with the latest games, it's had RAM added and the graphics card replaced and SSD fitted but it is 10+ years old and I've putting off replacing it for years; waiting for graphics card prices to come down and the next big thing to arrive but I think I just need to get it done!

I use the system at 1440p for MFS, gaming (COD WZ, Cities Skylines, Planet Coaster, Forza, GTA:V), Photoshop and occasional bits of video editing - I might go superwide at some point in the future. Also want it cool'n'quiet as the current rig can sound a bit breezy. I want the system to last and have some scope for upgrades in the future. Would appreciate considered thoughts on the below spec (i.e. not a bunch of people screaming I need to spend lots more for marginal gains in MFS, that I must i7 or die etc as I do not have a big budget)

Quote

Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO V2
Gigabyte B660M DS3H AX DDR4 Micro ATX LGA1700 with integral Wifi
Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME SSD 
Fractal Design Define Mini C mATX Mid Tower with fans
Corsair RM (2019) 650W 80+ Gold Certified Modular ATX PSU

Above comes to £755 ($1000 USD inc tax) at https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/Ns4wVw

You will note the lack of a graphics card because I intend to reuse my GTX980 4GB for now and see what happens later this year with pricing and the 4000 series. I've heard rumours they might be quite power hungry so perhaps I should go for a 750W PSU? No idea what AMD is planning, happy to be enlightened though.

If I bought a graphics card now I'd be looking at £490 ($660 USD inc. tax) for ASUS Dual fan RTX 2060 EVO OC 12GB GDDR6 or PNY Dual Fan RTX 2060 SUPER 8GB and I'm not sure that represents good value.

I have considered AMD Zen2 but it seems 12th Gen intel offers better performance for the same price (I know that wasn't the case with the 10th and 11th gen when AMD would've been a no brainer). Not sure I can be bothered with the faff of overclocking especially with all the automatic turboboost stuff they have these days so I haven't spec a K series although it seems they are now structurally different from non-K with more cores (would be extra £60 for 12600 and £85 for the 12600KF - although the ZF really needs Z series chipset which puts motherboard cost up a lot)? The 12400KF spec'd isn't a slouch though, it outbenchmarks a i7-10700KF!

Edited February 25, 2022 by ckyliu

[109Sqn 1,586]

21 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz

I'm running an i5-12400 (non-F) and MSFS barely taxes it, often only showing 35% usage, so I'd heartily recommend that. Reviews tend to show it as the go to CPU for mid range gaming over the previous AMD champions.

 

21 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory

Currently what I'm running, although that's because I'm dealing with issues with the same in 3600MHz which I should be running. Neither are officially supported by my mobo, so I don't consider it a bad choice, just one that may not be ideal for my setup.

 

21 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Corsair RM (2019) 650W 80+ Gold Certified Modular ATX PSU

Nobody likes to be told to spend more than I plan, particularly me, but that's an area I would try to spend a bit more if possible. I have the RM 850X. I really would be looking at an 850-1000W PSU, especially if you're not certain of which GPU you will ultimately use.

 

I'll leave it to others to go into more detail, but those are my basic thoughts on what I have experience with.

[ckyliu 1,749]

Thanks for your insights @109Sqn, this exactly the sort of useful feedback I was looking for 🙂 Seems going for a 12600 would not be money well spent. Curious to know what cooler your running and what you think of it? I've switched my spec to a BeQuiet Pure Rock 2 since I am fed up of the noise of my current build and I have a deep seated but unfounded mistrust of liquid cooling!

I spec'd 3200 CL16 as I believe it's effectively as fast as 3600 CL18 but hopefully without the compatibility struggles you've had and as a bonus it's a wee bit cheaper.

As you read I had reservations on PSU so had already upped to a Corsair TXM Gold 750W as price difference was marginal, but I'll give 850W serious consideration based on your comments although the price jump is rather more. Doubt my future budget would stretch beyond a 4070 and most likely would be a 4060-4050 or AMD equivilent so hopefully the power demands won't be quite as silly at those tiers. I do have to consider capacitor aging too though, given I am running a 10 year old overclocked system right now on the original PSU 😬

Edited February 27, 2022 by ckyliu

[109Sqn 1,586]

14 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Curious to know what cooler your running and what you think of it?

I'm just running the stock Intel cooler and I've not seen the CPU temp go anywhere near too high. My GPU does often run hot and I'd be happier if I could lower that. I've never tried water cooling and the price puts me off. My case can take two fans in the top so I may end up trying that to keep the GPU temp in check. My case does have an element of style over substance in that although it has 3 front fans, they are stuck behind a nice glass front with the only places for air to be sucked in being at the bottom and through 10 x 70mm approx grills on either side of the front glass. So those fans are probably working harder to push hot air towards the back of the case than bringing cooler air in from outside. 

I think of PSUs like insurance - it's always expensive to get better cover but you're glad of it when the extra part of it gets you a pay-out you'd otherwise have been denied. Getting an 'overpowered' PSU gives you a bit of spare overhead to reduce the wear on its component parts as it's not being forced near its limits. Before I educated myself on the subject I thought PSUs were little more than a plug and cable (not literally, but you get my point) - now I know that's probably the first thing a ready-built PC has skimped on to keep the price down.

[ckyliu 1,749]

An update on this (because I I think it's nice to know how people got on after recieving assistance), I have acted on @109Sqn advice and bought a 850W Corsair TXM Gold with a 7 year warranty, and it was just £10 more to do so.

Rest of the spec as described originally except I've opted for a BeQuiet Pure Rock 2 CPU cooler. Parts are now being delivered piecemeal so once I have it running I will report my temperatures, the case is quite a compact mATX so I may need to add more fans to get temperatures I am satisfied with longterm.

The motherboard was a bit stingy with USB ports on the back plate, but £8 got me 4 additional ports that mount into the rear of the case and attach to a pair of USB 2.0 headers on the motherboard.

I also have invested in some new speakers because it turns out I've lost a channel on my existing 4.1 setup. As I have glasses and a hearing aid headphones aren't all that comfortable so I've spent the last few days reading up on studio monitors and the like, and ultimately plumped for a Mackie CR4 stereo pair, although if I was buying new it would've probaby been M-Audio BX4. Here's hoping the onboard audio on the motherboard is decent because my current Gigabyte board is rather uninspiring sonically!

I going with Win10 Pro operating system because I don't need the Win11 thread director as only the i5-12600K has e-cores, plus I'm an old cantankerous sod that hates UI changes.

Edited March 9, 2022 by ckyliu

[ckyliu 1,749]

On 3/8/2022 at 11:56 PM, ckyliu said:

once I have it running I will report my temperatures, the case is quite a compact mATX so I may need to add more fans to get temperatures I am satisfied with longterm.

Further update on this for the benefit of others doing similar builds, here are my temperatures in degrees Celsius:

• CPU 28-66 (@VCore1.02v 4.0 GHz all cores), VRM 40-89. These temperatures are 7 degrees lower than they were by undervolting the processor slightly. The cooler is a BeQuiet Pure Rock 2.
• GPU 33-83+, SYS1 30-42, PCI 32-51. This is a Zotac card and the fan goes to about 3000 rpm doing a good hair fryer impression!
• SSD 56-67 on the flash chips, which is fine but worryingly the ASIC controller hits 84'c which seems hot. I attached the motherboard's included heatsink to the M.2 stick after removing the sticker with IPA (possibly voiding the warranty, whoops), but I'm not sure of that heatsink's effectiveness, especially as it's sandwiched between the GPU and CPU coolers without much air flow.

System runs fairly quietly, I'm impressed with the 120mm Fractal Designs Dynamic X2 fans that came with the case, I've setup custom fan curves that start them at 40% (about 600 rpm) increasing to 80% at maximum expected temperatures - the graphics card drowns everything else out when it's loaded up though! I am purchasing a 140mm version of the Fractal fan to replace a temporary 120mm fan I fitted to the upper front intake that pushes air towards the VRM and CPU cooler. So despite moaning about positive pressure in cases I appear to be doing so myself now!

On 3/8/2022 at 11:56 PM, ckyliu said:

plumped for a Mackie CR4 stereo pair, although if I was buying new it would've probaby been M-Audio BX4.

CR4 has a weighty build with all wood enclosure and the green outlining isn't as garish as I expected. The lack of any grilles means care must be taken not to put your fingers through the woofer or silk dome tweeters! Surprisingly for its price has a Class AB amp. Sound is nicely detailed in mid and treble with good separation, control and clarity (I am no audiophile though). Unfortunately they are bass heavy which becomes unrefined when turned up; with a rearward firing bass port they really should be 6"+ away from a wall but my setup only permits 3" so the problem is even more acute, I've spent hours tweaking Realtek's graphic EQ to remedy this and ended up with a 3.5 dB reduction across 31-250 Hz. I think they boosted the bass to compensate for the 4" driver rolling off quite rapidly below about 75 Hz. The included foam mats make more difference than you'd think and allow you to aim the speakers towards your ear height. They're okay now post-EQ but I wouldn't purchase again, I'd go for something more balanced.

Edited March 21, 2022 by ckyliu

[109Sqn 1,586]

Nice to see you're doing well with your setup

As a follow-up to my own rig's status, I did invest in a couple of fans for the top of the case, a pair of Noctua NF-A12x25 120mm fans and they've made a world of difference. They are typically quiet for Noctuas and, particularly when MSFS is running, the temperature of air exiting the rear of the case has gone from room-heating to merely slightly warm - most of the heat is now coming out from the Noctuas. Overall, the heat is dissipating pretty evenly rather than drifting out the top and mainly from the rear. I have to think that is better, in that the majority of the heat is leaving the case before being dragged over all the components on its way to the rear fan. Previously, the glass over middle of the three front-mounted fans was getting very hot under full load, often just before a hard shutdown. Now, that glass panel is remaining cool to mildly warm at worst.

So, if you feel the need for better cooling and have the space in your case, I'd recommend those fans.

[martin-w 3,258]

19 hours ago, ckyliu said:

BeQuiet Pure Rock 2

 

Sorry I'm late top the party. There are better coolers, but if you're happy then that's all good then. 😀

 

On 3/8/2022 at 11:56 PM, ckyliu said:

Corsair TXM Gold with a 7 year warranty, and it was just £10 more to do so.

 

Yep, all manner of arguments start between those who favour more wattage and those who don't. But what the "those who don't" often forget is that its frequently a very small sum more to up the wattage to a more comfortable level.

 

On 3/8/2022 at 11:56 PM, ckyliu said:

Mackie CR4 stereo pair, although if I was buying new it would've probaby been M-Audio BX4.

 

This is a dilemma I had recently when I built my system. I currently have a Corsair sound system that comprises an enormous sub woofer and two speakers. It takes up a lot of room, thus I was considering studio speakers but wasn't sure about the sound quality. 

 

17 hours ago, 109Sqn said:

I did invest in a couple of fans for the top of the case, a pair of Noctua NF-A12x25 120mm fans and they've made a world of difference.

 

They are awesome fans. Best around. 

[ckyliu 1,749]

 

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

sound system that comprises an enormous sub woofer and two speakers. It takes up a lot of room

Systems with separate subwoofers (2.1, 5.1 etc) will typically take up less room on the desk than proper loudspeakers. Typical driver sizes are 3, 4 and 5", if you want good bass response low down you want 5" (I compromised at 4" and they just fit, but the downside is my bass tails off at 70 Hz, not 60 Hz). The cabinets of my 4" Mackie CR4 are W155xD210xH225, 2+ kg each, compared to the 80mm cube satellites I had on my Cambridge 4.1 surround system. The sound is quite directional so they need aiming towards your ears, they're not room filling speakers so you can't just place them wherever you want.

When buying speakers for a computer, ensure they are "active" meaning they have an integral amplifier - typical bookshelf hifi speakers need an external amplifier, the search term "desktop speaker" seems to give more active results.

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

 I was considering studio speakers but wasn't sure about the sound quality.

You can get high quality sound from desktop speakers, the clarity of mine knock the 4.1 system I had into a cocked hat; I keep hearing bits of songs I never heard before! But you need to spend a bit, if buying new I would expect between £90 and £160 for the quality I have now (something like JBL One 104 or aforementioned M-Audio BX4), and you could easily spend £200+ on a PreSonus E5 pair, or even £450+ on a pair of big flat Yamaha HS8. You will forego the big punch in the stomach bass you'd get from a separate subwoofer designed for explosions in films and games, these musically inclined speakers are more refined and balanced, although some offer the option of a separately purchasable subwoofer to cover this shortfall.

Sound is ultimately a subjective thing influenced by personal tastes, a good review can only give you a rough idea as much is dependent on your room acoustics, the signal you feed into the amp and speakers, the type of audio you listen to - this is why hifi shops have demo rooms but that's probably a tad overkill for a desktop speaker!  True studio monitors (aka reference speakers) may not be active and don't always make for comfortable music listening because they have a very flat frequency response that highlights problems with mixing (that's their intended use, ensuring high quality production values), you may want something that sounds a little warmer and masks recording defects!

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Sorry I'm late top the party. There are better coolers, but if you're happy then that's all good then. 😀

There definitely are, but for the £30 I spent I'm not sure I could beat the Pure Rock 2's combination of temperatures and sound level. Another £10-15 would've gotten me a Arctic Freezer 34 eSports DUO with better cooling (that would be wasted on a non-overclocked CPU) but more noise. And as we've seen from above, I value good acoustics!

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by ckyliu

[martin-w 3,258]

2 hours ago, ckyliu said:

When buying speakers for a computer, ensure they are "active" meaning they have an integral amplifier - typical bookshelf hifi speakers need an external amplifier, the search term "desktop speaker" seems to give more active results.

 

Yeah the speakers I was looking at were active, quality speakers. In the end I decided to stick top what I have. The Corser speaker system I have is very high quality and expensive with fantastic sound. In fact Corsair don't make them anymore. I may switch some time in the future.

 

2 hours ago, ckyliu said:

There definitely are, but for the £30 I spent I'm not sure I could beat the Pure Rock 2's combination of temperatures and sound level.

 

Your CPU doesn't generate that much heat relatively speaking, so yes, its perfectly adequate. A lot of competition at that price point, so if money is  a factor, a good bet. Silent Wings fans are decent, I used to use them. I use Noctua fans exclusively these days. 

I cool my 12900K with a Noctua NH-D15S. There aren't many coolers that can match it, let alone beat it. And you'd be astonished how quiet it is. 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by martin-w

[109Sqn 1,586]

15 hours ago, martin-w said:

I cool my 12900K with a Noctua NH-D15S

Exactly what I'd be using if my 15-12400 didn't run cool enough with the stock cooler.

[martin-w 3,258]

6 hours ago, 109Sqn said:

Exactly what I'd be using if my 15-12400 didn't run cool enough with the stock cooler.

 

What's the stock cooler like for noise? 

[109Sqn 1,586]

2 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

What's the stock cooler like for noise? 

I'd call it moderate to quiet but that's obviously subjective. I certainly hear the airflow under low usage (e.g. internet browsing and other basic tasks) but it's far from distracting and I largely filter that out. When MSFS is running, things definitely get noisy in comparison but I'm not really certain where most of the noise comes from 9CPU or GPU), but again I can pretty much ignore it. Someone walking into the room for the first time would definitely notice it though. I value cooling over noise so I have only ever increased the fan out put rather than flatten the curve. Other people may be less tolerant of the noise than me.

If the Noctua NFS-12x25 ever gets a serious discount then I may reconsider as I've never been disappointed with their fans. But I don't need to be spending £90 as things stand.

[martin-w 3,258]

1 hour ago, 109Sqn said:

When MSFS is running, things definitely get noisy in comparison but I'm not really certain where most of the noise comes from 9CPU or GPU),

 

Will be  VGA noisy under load. Most cards are noisy under load. The 3090 is the only loud'ish thing in my system, but when you are gaming its not an issue. Its the DDR6X temp though, GPU temp is pretty low. 

 

1 hour ago, 109Sqn said:

Other people may be less tolerant of the noise than me.

 

Yeah I dislike noisy PC's. If its at idle mine is pretty silent. The D15 is famous for being quiet, but I have Fan Xpert dropping the RPM right down at idle. Idle temps are still very low despite. Same for case fans, they ramp right down at idle, pointless to have them at anything but super low RPM at idle. I had case fans configured for off altogether in my old system, but Fan Xpert has these still turning but slow. I recall I'm on the "standard" Asus fan profile, I haven't needed to set a custom curve. 

[109Sqn 1,586]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Will be  VGA noisy under load

Absolutely. I was a bit clumsy with my comment - I really meant I wasn't sure of the proportion of noise from each. Certainly, the GPU provides the vast amount of that, and with no override set to its profile, it really ramps up. But as it previously caused shutdowns due to the hotspot overheating, I'll take the noise over that.