Hi,
there seems to be a conflict between FSUIPC and AAO causing a crash to desktop with no error message, seconds after starting a flight. The problem exists in both FSX SE and MSFS, but I'll use FSX to describe it, because it's more convenient for testing.

Simulator: FSX SE
OS: Windows 11 22H2
FSUIPC4 v4.977
AAO v3.50 b36

Everything was reinstalled for testing, erasing all previous settings in the various paths.
No script or particular setting, both in AAO and FSUIPC.

In the "DLL.xml" file only "LorbyLvarHook" and "FSUIPC 4" are active.
If I leave them both active, when I start a flight after a few seconds I have a CTD. It doesn't always happen, about 75% of the time. The AAO application isn't even started, only the "LorbyLvarHook" module is active.

FSUIPC log ends with the sentence "Starting everything now ...", so the CTD happens just when FSUIPC starts.

It didn't happen until some time ago, even if it seems strange, because the "LorbyLvarHook" module is from 2022 and FSUIPC is always the same version.

Let me know what you think, thank you!

Did you remove the hook and double checked that it really is the cause?

Or maybe it is just the hook that causes the CTD, with or without FSUIPC?

TMBK at lot of people use them at the same time.

Edited July 24, 20232 yr by Lorby_SI

2 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

Did you remove the hook and double checked that it really is the cause?

Or maybe it is just the hook that causes the CTD, with or without FSUIPC?

Yes, if I disable "LorbyLvarHook" in the "DLL.xml" file I don't have any CTD. But used alone the "LorbyLvarHook" module also works. If AAO and FSUIPC are both active, CTD occurs.

Could it depend on the peripherals connected? It happens even without joysticks connected, but I have two keyboards and a mouse connected all the time.

 

2 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

TMBK at lot of people use them at the same time.

In fact it is strange, before it worked!

That is indeed strange, especially when, as you say, you have the same issue in MSFS. The hook module uses a completely different technology in MSFS and FSX, so if anything, it must be something "inside" the sim.

In general it is not a good idea to use two programs at the same time that do pretty much exactly the same thing. But unless there is a stack trace somewhere for me to look at, it is impossible to troubleshoot, sorry. When Windows decides to terminate a process (=what is usually called a CTD), then there should be an error listed in the Windows Event Log. But with C++ assets that one is usually meaningless.

15 minutes ago, FlyingJ said:

Could it depend on the peripherals connected?

Not with AAO. The "hooks" module has nothing whatsoever to do with hardware. It is just there as an additional interface for those items that can't be done with SimConnect (like reading from/writing to variables and events outside of the SDK). AAO would work without it, but it is then limited to what the SDK can do.

15 minutes ago, FlyingJ said:

before it worked!

"before" - what exactly? Can you retrace your steps to when it happened the first time? Was there an update, did you install something new? 

 

Edited July 24, 20232 yr by Lorby_SI

1 hour ago, Lorby_SI said:

"before" - what exactly? Can you retrace your steps to when it happened the first time? Was there an update, did you install something new? 

It's hard to say, surely there have been several Windows 11 updates in the meantime.
I don't think it has anything to do with it, but could a sound card driver update affect it in any way?

I did several tests, the problem is not AAO!

AAO + FSUIPC = lots of crashes

FSUIPC alone = some crashes, less often

AAO alone = it seems no crash

 

All of this regardless of any other changes to the system, I've tried everything...

The problem seems to be connected to a Windows 11 update that causes the FSX API.dll library to crash, as they say at this link: https://forum.simflight.com/topic/97751-fsx-steam-edition-not-loading-correctly/

Edited July 24, 20232 yr by FlyingJ

35 minutes ago, FlyingJ said:

API.dll

Hmm.

In case of DLL trouble - maybe check if there have been updates to the C++ runtimes too (VCREDIST). Or maybe the Win11 Update has broken one of them, wouldn't be the first time IIRC. 
I'm not sure what version of the runtime FSX SE requires, the legacy FSX needed 2005. I would (re)install both x86 and x64 versions of the vcredist just to be safe.
You can also find the runtimes in the installed apps in the Win 11 settings as "Microsoft Visual C++ 20xx x86/64 Redistributable" - those are the ones that should be there.

MSFS will require the latest unified VCREDIST 2015/17/19/22 (there is only one single download for them).

Edited July 24, 20232 yr by Lorby_SI

18 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Hmm.

In case of DLL trouble - maybe check if there have been updates to the C++ runtimes too (VCREDIST). Or maybe the Win11 Update has broken one of them, wouldn't be the first time IIRC. 
I'm not sure what version of the runtime FSX SE requires, the legacy FSX needed 2005. I would (re)install both x86 and x64 versions of the vcredist just to be safe.
You can also find the runtimes in the installed apps in the Win 11 settings as "Microsoft Visual C++ 20xx x86/64 Redistributable" - those are the ones that should be there.

MSFS will require the latest unified VCREDIST 2015/17/19/22 (there is only one single download for them).

Thank you for the suggestion, but I've already reinstalled all the Visual C++ redists (2005-2022) by downloading them from the official link: https://learn.microsoft.com/it-IT/cpp/windows/latest-supported-vc-redist?view=msvc-170

The problem is still there... There are other people having the same problem and hopefully Microsoft will fix it with another update!

 

I believe I suffer the same on MSFS, although I did not check if I unload FSUIPC my Sim won't crash.

 

Did you see the last post from the other user? Specifically this part:

Quote

 

I did several tests, the problem is not AAO!

AAO + FSUIPC = lots of crashes

FSUIPC alone = some crashes, less often

AAO alone = it seems no crash

 

 

In general, using several apps at the same time that do essentially the same thing is not a good strategy. As demonstrated by Mobiflight just recently.

Edited January 5, 20242 yr by Lorby_SI

yes I saw his post but in my case it is not FSUIPC (I tested it around the same time I read his post, right after), I disabled it from the exe.xml and made sure it is disabled and not loaded.
but still it crashes on PMDG 737 load ("fly now"). now I have a new suspect I want to test, and it is my Logitech panel driver that is in the exe.xml.

in my exe.xml I have the plugin that supposed to make my radio panel work when you load the Sim/Aircraft
 

    <Launch.Addon>
        <Name>Logitech Microsoft Flight Simulator Plugin</Name>
        <Disabled>False</Disabled>
        <Path>"C:\Program Files\Logitech\Microsoft Flight Simulator Plugin\LogiMicrosoftFlightSimulator.exe"</Path>
        <CommandLine>-r</CommandLine>
    </Launch.Addon>

But it never really worked and google wasn't so helpful either, well, google found users on forums complaining about this issue in Windows 11 but, the forum posts about the issue every solution suggested was using external tools like SPAD.Next, etc. to solve the issue. so not much of a vendor out of the box solution was suggested.
in AAO I noticed you can enable the Logitech panel under tools or extra, can't remember what sub menu exactly, and it works, my radio panel works great with AAO.
so now I am suspecting that maybe those two are in a collision course when the plane is loaded. I'll test it tomorrow and see if that is the cause.
Other then that one, I don't really have any other addons that load with the Sim. I don't even have a dll.xml file, so no any hidden DLLs are loaded.
 

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by Akila

@Lorby_SI @FlyingJ Found the culprit !!! (in my case anyway), it is the the "Saitek Panels enabled" settings in the AAO.

I have a radio panel by Saitek and I use this function in AAO to make my radio work as the default Logitech plugin for MSFS for the radio doesn't seem to work on Windows 11.
So I enable it through AAO and it works fine. But, that is what causing the crash. no matter if the Logitech plugin is enabled or disabled in exe.xml, it will crash anyway in either case.
The only way I found that it won't crash, is if I load AAO program manually after the Aircraft is fully loaded onto the tarmac. then everything is working as expected and no crash. but if AAO is loaded before (e.g. when Sim starts), the sim will CTD after you press "Fly Now" ( the plane would be loaded onto the tarmac, the main display is dimmed and 4 seconds later the Sim would crash).
If I load AAO without the Saitek panels enabled, i.e. disabled, then the Sim won't crash, even if AAO was loaded before i load the Aircraft.

NOTE: I have only tested it with PMDG 737 (v3.0.86 and v3.0.87), so I don't know if it conflicts with other aircrafts as well or not.

NOTE: I remove any addons I might have in the Sim, pretty much a clean community folder. and clean exe.xml (i don't have dll.xml file)

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by Akila

5 hours ago, Akila said:

it is the the "Saitek Panels enabled" settings in the AAO

Thank you for checking this out. I have that setting enabled all the time /I have two radio panels, a Multi and a Switch panel), but my sim doesn't crash. Very weird. Did you change the assignments of the Radio Panel in any way? 

Also, maybe take a look at "Hardware->Device Blacklist". Move everything into the list on the right that isn't a game controller (= a joystick, yoke or similar). All mice, keyboards and other funny devices, StreamDeck and Saitek panels must be "Ignore"d.

 

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by Lorby_SI

I haven't changed anything on the radio panel I left everything on default.

 

just tested other aircrafts, it doesn't crash others I tested. it only crashes the SIM if I load the PMDG 737.
For now I guess I am OK with the workaround of loading AAO after the aircraft is on the tarmac.

Edited January 6, 20242 yr by Akila