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arrex

NAT and PACOTS without navigraph DB

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Hi,

I often get errors in after downloading the tracks; apparently some points are not present in the default FSX DB, which is logical (old and obsolete DB). Funny, this seems only to happen with the enter-exit points, not with the intermediate ones. My question is: is there somewhere a list of the waypoints (and their coordinates)? I would like to create an integrative scenery that adds these points for older simulator. Also how are waypoints defined in the NATS dowloads? ID and Region?

 

 


Greetings,

Antonio "Arrex" Arreghini

 

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3 hours ago, arrex said:

Hi,

I often get errors in after downloading the tracks; apparently some points are not present in the default FSX DB, which is logical (old and obsolete DB). Funny, this seems only to happen with the enter-exit points, not with the intermediate ones. My question is: is there somewhere a list of the waypoints (and their coordinates)? I would like to create an integrative scenery that adds these points for older simulator. Also how are waypoints defined in the NATS dowloads? ID and Region?

 

 

1) NATs explanation:   https://occ.ivao.aero/assets/docs/guides/APCGTNAC_EN.pdf
2) NATs daily report: https://www.notams.faa.gov/common/nat.html
3) Skyvector: https://skyvector.com/

IMHO the best option in your situation will be Skyvector map. When you open it, try switch to WorldLo or WorldHi map to see navigation points,
then enter to  "Layers" and switch "NATs"  on (Pacots are also available there). Then you can see enter and exit points from the given tracks.
When you'll make right-click on the given point it should display GPS coordinates -  what you can use to define your userpoint under LNM.

That's all, I hope it helps you 🙂

Regards,
Piotr

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Thanks.

Had the idea to switch LNM into navigraph mode, then plan a flight touching every waypoint at the entry and exit points, and then export the flight plan. It will contain all coordinates and waypoint names, from which I can easily add the code to make a BGL....

Yet i am not sure which points to include.... it looks like NAT is between Gander and Shanwick oceanic FIRS. So I would get the points at the edge of them.... but i see Santa maria and New york oceanic are also potentially part of the NAT system.... and maybe more. Plus i don't know anything of PACOTS and definitely never heard anything of AUSOTS....

 


Greetings,

Antonio "Arrex" Arreghini

 

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The PACOTS routes are fixed routes with semi-permanently defined waypoints.  The NATS are not--they are dynamically-defined routes/waypoints based on forecast upper-level winds in the North Atlantic, and they change from day to day (ARINC sends out a daily message that defines the NATS routes for the next day).  So where a monthly nav database might be expected to include the PACOTS routes and waypoints, it would/could not include the NATS routes/waypoints due to their constantly-changing nature.

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Thanks for clarification.

2 points i would like to highlight:

1. Currently the NAT is not printed if entry/exit navaids are not found. Is it possible to modify this behavior, such a way that it is displayed for the part that is found? For example, let's assume the exit point is the only missing; the NAT then get only displayed in the part that it is found and the last segment is omitted

2. I noticed that sometimes the wrong waypoints are used. For example right now the entry point of NAT_Y is ELSIR/CY the track is currently

Waypoints Ident/Region:

ELSIR/CY, 5050/CY, 5140/CY, 5230/CY, 5220/EI, DINIM/EI

CY/ELSIR does not exist in my database and normally the track should not to be displayed (following the logic of point 1)... but LNM looks ELSIR in the whole DB and finds it in and airport in Canada (west coast) CYVP/CY, where ELSIR is a terminal waypoint... Similarly, now I have a PACOTS ending at KALNA/VI (india), even if it should end in KALNA/RJ (Japan). My scenery does not have KALNA/RJ and LNM falls back on the other KALNA it finds.... this i guess it's a bug, although not sure how easy is to correct as I am not sure how DB are used in MSFS and Xplane.

 


Greetings,

Antonio "Arrex" Arreghini

 

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Sorry, but I cannot do much if the navdata it too old or incomplete.  It's already a lot of guesswork and fuzzy matching when reading normal route descriptions. Regions or coordinates are not available in the downloaded track information. No way to find the right waypoint in this case, so not a bug, but a data limitation.

I could scan for special waypoint types to select track entry and exit but this information is missing in all databases except Navigraph and X-Plane.

Alex

Edited by albar965

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I understand. From what I see the research should be limited to few regions: EI, EG, CY, RJ, P, K2, PH, P.... if that can help. Anyway, displaying all data on what it is most plausble, it's probably the best option. Currently my strategy is to enable them in the Navigraph db, entering the route in the flight plan, and later revert to FSX DB, so that they are exported as custom waypoints....

 


Greetings,

Antonio "Arrex" Arreghini

 

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