How to get Full Approach

[snomhf 14]

I have been experimenting with ways to get P2A to clear me for a full approach.   It seems to REALLY want to give me vectors.   I have been using an intersection WENDI at KRDU which is a convienient spot for the downwind leg as I fly back toward my iaf BEICH for ILS rwy 05R.   I have tried a number of scenerios without success and finally put together one that finally worked:

Create and file a flight plan:   KRDU->WENDI->ILS RW05R.BEICH

I kept expecting ATC to give me "Expect ILS RW05" as I got close to WENDI but it never happened.   After getting several miles past WENDI (on HDG),  I started guessing as what to say.   I didn't think a "Request" was appropriate since my flight plan had been cleared to RDU but I finally had success with:

"Washington Center,  N7WA, Inbound At 6,000 Request ILS Approach to Runway 05R"

The controller told me to "Expect the ILS Approach to rw05R with the BEICH transition" and everything went just fine from there.   No vectors!  Yeah!!

Now, here's the question.   Do I HAVE TO have a fp to get a full procedure?   I never got that to work.  I had tried (no fp):

"N2WA Inbound at 6,000 Request ILS Approach To Runway 05R At Kilo Romeo Delta Uniform" 

(omitting the "Radar Vectors" phrase thinking that would be how you get a full procedure) but that didn't work.  I then tried (even though I see no grammar rule for this):

"N2WA Inbound at 6,000 Request ILS Approach To Runway 05R With The BEICH Transition At Kilo Romeo Delta Uniform"

and was not surprised that didn't work.  I even tried with "Bravo Echo India Charlie Hotel".  No joy

So, how is this done?   I'd really like to have a full approach as an option in shooting approaches without having to put together a fp every time.

thanks

-mark

[Fiorentoni 4,248]

Not sure what you mean with "full procedure"? an ILS approach is a full approach. Do you mean the STAR? If so, there is an option to force the use of a STAR in the settings.

And yes, for IFR you need a flightplan...

[snomhf 14]

Full Approach opposed to getting vectors.   When you want to request an approach from IAF to touchdown (for practice), IRL, we always use the phrase "Full Procedure" to let the controller know we want to practice the entire procedure.   I am trying to figure out how to tell P2A I want to do that is all.  Maybe that's a regional thing.  Is there another way to request this that I'm not aware of?  Everyone around here certainly understands that terminology.  Maybe not since no one has responded to this.   Hmmm.   Interesting.   I'll have to look into that.   Thanks

Edited March 27 by snomhf

[snomhf 14]

Ah, I've learned something here.  Thank you Fiorentoni.  Apparently, "full procedure" is a colloquialism that is used a lot around these parts.  Other phrases for this appear to be "own navigation" and "pilot navigation" but none of these are official FAR either.  I will have to be more careful about throwing these terms around assuming everyone understands.  Of course, this is a bit of a side track (though interesting) from my original question of trying to get ATC to clear me for a full procedure/own navigation/pilot navigation.  Still struggling with that.

BTW, you can certainly hop in a plane,  fly to a fix and shoot an RNAV or ILS approach without any sort of flight plan.   We do that all the time.   We always inform the controller we want to do some approach practice so they know what we're up to and they are especially glad we want "full procedure" so they don't have to give us vectors.   Of course,  we don't do this during busy times and stay away from the big "heavy" runway too.  I don't think I would try this at some big class B airport but we are small enough that one can get away with it.

Cheers!

[snomhf 14]

It feels a little weird having this conversation mostly with myself but I see a fair number of people viewing so I'll continue.

I have discovered that if my flight plan starts and ends at the same airport,  P2A gets real confused.   That seems to be the crux of the problem.   When I was using the flight plan KRDU->WENDI->ILS05R.BEICH->KRDU,  the controller never cleared me for the approach.  I never even got the "Expect Approach" and when I decided to execute the approach anyway,  the controller had no idea what I was doing.   I then tried this from a nearby airport and EVERYTHING worked PERFECTLY: KGSO->LIB->ILS05R.BEICH->KRDU.  I got the "Full Procedure" (aka "Own Navigation"/"Pilot Navigation") that I was expecting and was able to fly the entire route using the autopilot and VNAV and the controller knew exactly what I was doing.  Cool!

So, bottom line is:   If you want to try and replicate shooting approaches you and a buddy might do IRL at your home airport where you just go out, circle around some convenient waypoint and ask the tower to clear you for a "full approach" (no flight plan, etc), the best way is to create a simple flight plan from a nearby airport (so your departure/arrival airports are different), this works fine.

So, if Dave thinks this may be a "bug" that should get fixed, that would be great.  Otherwise,  this is a resonable workaround.

Thanks

-mark

[Ramberga 12]

Your example is a VFR flight, not an IFR flight needing a flight plan. Just take off VFR without a flight plan, shoot the approach and call Tower for landing clearance.

[snomhf 14]

I never said it was IFR (if I did it was an accident).   The whole flight is obviously VFR.   What's the point of contacting the tower at all?  You've already flown 2/3 of the approach so you may as well fly the rest of it quitely.  I like getting the clearance to fly the approach.   I'm funny that way I guess.

[Ramberga 12]

because you can't land at a controlled airport without a clearance.

 

Your initial post includes "Washington Center,  N7WA, Inbound At 6,000 Request ILS Approach to Runway 05R" as part of your dialogue. That is an IFR request, so the flight is not "obviously VFR".

Edited March 29 by Ramberga

[snomhf 14]

That's only because I had to create a flight plan in my effort to get P2A to work for this and because I set the Departure Airport the same as Arrival, P2A was just confused and handed me off to Center.  Anyway, this is getting pointless.   Obviously you are much more concerned about being RIGHT than following this.  So I'll just say:  "Ok my friend, you are absolutely Correct!"

Have a great day!