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Guest Pilot533

ATP and DCA

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Hello, I will be starting my flight training in about 2 years to become an airline pilot, I was considering dca and atp, right now I am leaning toward atp because they are closer to home, they offer alot of multi engine training throughout various parts of the u.s., they offer jet time, and claim to have more pilots hired at a regional airline then any other school. Am I leaning the right way here? I am also going to visit the folks at dca this coming February, any question that you can think of that I should ask them? Im the 1st one in my family to ever pursue this kind of career so Know alot more about how to actually fly the jets from teaching my self over the past 8 years than I do about how to actually get the job. Also I am curious if flying for one of the delta connection airlines (ie skywest) will give you seniority at delta airlines, I hope to move on to bigger aircraft with bigger paychecks than the crj-200. And are there any schools better than atp or dca such as flightsaftey that I may want to consider? I know its a long hard road becoming an airline pilot but I am determined an will not settle for any other career ;)Thanks for reading, any help is greatly appreciated.

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You are forgetting one major thing you need to do and that is your 4 year degree.

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I agree with Chris. What airlines really look for is a college degree. This shows that you are more well-rounded, rather than going to school to learn to fly and nothing else. They want to see that you are active in other areas such as liberal arts and things. What area are you from? I'm currently a freshman at the University of Dubuque, which is about an hour and a half from my house in Illinois. It's a good school, and getting a degree will help you more than going to an academy and getting your ratings in a few months.

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Those schools only give you a few hundred hours too- I think you need 1200 to be an ATP? That means you will be doing flight instruction for a few years before you are ready for an ATP anyway. Of course you could fly on your own time as well and not be a flight instructor- $180/hour for a twin x 1000 hours = you better be rich.I agree with the others- find a 4 year school that you can also learn to fly at. Believe it or not, Yale has a flying program. They keep their planes right next to the ones I rent. Doesn't the University of Illinois offer flight programs also? If you have two years, you have plenty of time to look into scholarship programs/student loans.And last but not least- the 'college experience' is not something you want to miss. I didn't live on campus and I regret it. Nor did I graduate but that's another story. Wow do I have some college stories :)

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Sorry, I completely left that out, I am looking into a ba in aviation science from one of the cooperating colleges with dca or atp. Everywhere I read that experience and flight hours mean more than anything in this business. And the regional airlines do hire alot of pilots from these flight schools. Also the regional airlines do not require 1500 hours, its more around 4-600 hours.

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#### I should be going to an airline soon then ;) I think you have a little bit more reading to be doing.

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Since you probably don't know where to start I'll give you some hours to shoot for ;)For commercial service under Part 135 and VFR only flight is at least 500 total time, 100 hours x-country, 25 at night. To operate under IFR which 95% of charter flights operate under it is 1,200 total time, 500 cross country, 100 hours of night time, 75 hours of simulated or actual instrument time.These are all times for charter service operating aircraft with less then 10 seats and not a scheduled flag carrier. Good luck now that you know the truth :)

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I Know alot more than you think i do, Im just getting information from various places because its good to have a variety of opinions to make a well thought out logical decision. Im not stupid, and I know there is no way I'll be flying for an airline making alot of money for a long time, i plan to flight instruct or fly cargo aircraft to build hours, then possibly apply for a regional airline when I have the time needed and build more hours and gain seniority and see what life throws at me there where I can meet people and enjoy life doing what I love, even though they pay is pretty bad I have faith and determination and I will succeed and fly for a major airline, it wont be easy, but i will.

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Well no offense but you are wrong. It is good to get a variety of opinions but you first have to make sure they are correct before you start talking like you know what the requirements are.Take a look at airline hiring minimums and then tell me you will get in under those mins. They won't even send you in for a personality interview.

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Sure if you want to apply directly to the airline after getting training with a local school. See here-http://www.atpflightschool.com/airlines/am...e_alliance.htmlAnd just because you leave atp with only 200 hours that doesn't mean much, thats why most people have time building jobs after they leave such as flight instructing. The industry is in need of some dedicated flight instructors, and flight instructing is a good way to build time if you instruct for the right school. When did I ever say I was thinking about applying for an airline job directly after flight school?

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I never said you were going to but you did say this, "Also the regional airlines do not require 1500 hours, its more around 4-600 hours." That is what I was replying too.

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>I never said you were going to but you did say this, "Also>the regional airlines do not require 1500 hours, its more>around 4-600 hours." That is what I was replying too.Regionals right now will hire anybody who can spell the word "Fly". At this time, they have incredibly low time minimums (Commair is currently hiring 600TT w/ 100 multi). But that's the regionals, paying $20k/yr.As for making it to the airlines, all I can say is "Heh, good luck".

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Well yeah, Im aware that making it to the major airlines is nothing easy, I plan to spend lots of time flying for the regionals and make it to pic there, and earn a decent enough salary, not enough where I can own a house on Malibu with a bmw, but enough where I can live in a decent home or condo and pay for myself, marriage will come later. And of course the most important thing is that I will be doing what I love, and get paid to do it. One question I have is how long do you believe the regionals will be hiring so well, Im only in the 10th grade and directly after hs I plan to get my training as fast as I can so I can start hour building and taking my college online, so its gonna be some time before I get to the regionals. What do you think the trend will be for the next 5-10 yrs? Obviously im not holding you to anything because I understand that there aren't many industry's that change as fast as the airlines do.

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>Well yeah, Im aware that making it to the major airlines is>nothing easy, I plan to spend lots of time flying for the>regionals and make it to pic there, and earn a decent enough>salary, not enough where I can own a house on Malibu with a>bmw, but enough where I can live in a decent home or condo and>pay for myself, marriage will come later. And of course the>most important thing is that I will be doing what I love, and>get paid to do it. One question I have is how long do you>believe the regionals will be hiring so well, Im only in the>10th grade and directly after hs I plan to get my training as>fast as I can so I can start hour building and taking my>college online, so its gonna be some time before I get to the>regionals. What do you think the trend will be for the next>5-10 yrs? Obviously im not holding you to anything because I>understand that there aren't many industry's that change as>fast as the airlines do.I really don't know. I would think that as long as there is a demand for them, they will stick around (duh).If I may ask, how do you plan to finance this?

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Well sure they will stick if people will pay for the tickets, I guess with the buisness travelers and people commuting to work they should need a steady stream of regional pilots (at least I hope so anyway) Now the nitty gritty. Wonderfull parents. Thats how I plan to finance the main stuff at atp or dca or whatever school I plan on going to. While Im flight instructing or hour building, they will provide a place to live but once I go for the airlines im on my own with an apartment until im settled enough to buy a home because job security or being able to settle down in one place is something I dont expect to see for a long time. And chris, sorry I guess there was a misunderstanding, I should have been more specific with what I meant with the hiring minimums I suppose. Back to the main topic, what school do you think is a better choice?

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true but you are going to on restriction and on call for pilots who can't fly the problem is when you get in this low is that it takes a while to make it up to ATP minimums so that you can upgrade to left seat.

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If I were to pick between the two I would pick ATP because of the reputation and being able to do the regional jet program.

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Dont they offer a time frame when they will upgrade you, but these can change pretty fast right? Some airline boast low upgrade times I have heard. (I have also heard to be weary of these airlines)

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>Well sure they will stick if people will pay for the tickets,>I guess with the buisness travelers and people commuting to>work they should need a steady stream of regional pilots (at>least I hope so anyway) Now the nitty gritty. Wonderfull>parents. Thats how I plan to finance the main stuff at atp or>dca or whatever school I plan on going to. While Im flight>instructing or hour building, they will provide a place to>live but once I go for the airlines im on my own with an>apartment until im settled enough to buy a home because job>security or being able to settle down in one place is>something I dont expect to see for a long time. And chris,>sorry I guess there was a misunderstanding, I should have been>more specific with what I meant with the hiring minimums I>suppose. >>Back to the main topic, what school do you think is a better>choice?Training costs at these schools are very high. Some up in the $70k - $80k range. If you are not taking out any loans to pay for it, that puts you in a very nice spot.If you DO take out any loans, rethink your decision. You will be in debt for a looong time, trying to pay off a $100k loan you took out to get a $20k/yr job.Also, I've heard just horrible stuff about DCA. Stay away.

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Hmm well I was certainly leaning towards atp for many reasons, but what is so bad about dca? And should I look into others like aca, flightsaftey, raa, pan am or spartan? And what about jet university, it that a gimmick?

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>Dont they offer a time frame when they will upgrade you, but>these can change pretty fast right? Some airline boast low>upgrade times I have heard. (I have also heard to be weary of>these airlines)Nobody offers anything about when you will upgrade. Whatever anybody tells you now about when you will upgrade if you sign up with their airline is worth about as much as the paper it is written on or the breath it is spoken with. It can and will change instantly at the whim of the industry and the business position of your airline. And you haven't even learned to fly yet, why do you even have upgrade on your mind? Upgrade time will be completely moot if you don't have the maturity, experience and judgement at the time you go through it to pass. Lately, about as much as 1/3 of the people upgrading here don't make it through. They are given two chances at the type ride here before they have to decide. Go back to FO or take the third ride and either pass or be terminated. Most of these are people who've come straight to the regionals from the puppy mills and have practically zero experience being in charge of a plane. Worry more about which school will provide better flight instruction at a better cost than one which sells you promises of the left seat of an RJ quicker.

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Yeah I knew I would get flamed for saying that, just wanted another opinion again. The reason I am thinking about these this is to be prepared, ever hear of planning ahead? ;)

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>Yeah I knew I would get flamed for saying that, just wanted>another opinion again. The reason I am thinking about these>this is to be prepared, ever hear of planning ahead? ;)Ever heard of "putting the cart before the horse?"If you were really planning ahead and thinking clearly, you'd be asking questions about getting a real four year degree, getting flight training during your early college years, flight instructing during the later college years, internships at major airlines and possible military options. Not questions about whether you get a Delta Airline seniority number by going to Delta Connection Academy (ROTFLMAO) or who's got the fastest upgrade times when you haven't even started taking private pilot lessons. Have you gotten your medical yet? Can you hold a Class I? How long until you turn 23? What if you keep getting airsick? How is your driving record? What if it turns out you don't really cut it in the cockpit? There's a lot more relevant things to think about than your seniority at Delta Airlines.

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Yes Kevin brought up a lot of good points. I know after the first quarter of school we find at least 5 or more people from a class size of 40 that can't cut it to even get their solo write off.

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