Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest Shalomar

Will Shared Cockpit Compatiblity sell Aircraft?

Recommended Posts

A post in the Multiplayer forum gave me the idea for a survey, but I have no idea how to do one on Avsim... Help :-)I consider compatibility with Shared CockpitA:) *Very* importantB:) Nice but not really a factor in pulling my credit cardC: Not important at allTo give an example, the ATR-72 works in FSX without shared Cockpits. Suppose Flight 1 reworked it or another aircraft dev you already owned reworked their plane for Shared cockpit. (Microsoft has released instructions for sharing custom guages, the Twotter is the first out to benefit).A: Terrific!!! I would be glad to pay extra for a shared cockpit compatible versionB: Bah Humbug! Only if it's free.C: I wish my devs would put their effort into something else.My answers are a *strong* A for both...Best Regards, Donald Traill :-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Absolutely "A" for both. I would be prepared to pay more for shared cockpit compatible aircraft and in some cases I haven't purchased planes that I would like to fly simply because they're not compatible with that mode. I spend 100% of my FSX time in multiplayer, have since release day, and it's a fantastic feature. Aircraft like the Flight1 Pilatus PC-12 or Digital Aviation Cheyenne scream out for the shared experience. Both would be great training aircraft for IFR and complex flight.Can't fault developers for not bothering with shared compatibility so far, they didn't have the data to share local variables until recently. But now that they do? Pretty please? :)There's another upside to coding gauges for Shared Cockpit friends/junkies like myself and several of my online friends. Whatever aircraft they buy, they buy *two* of them. ;)Cheers,-mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the highend addons, it won't do a thing.The customers for those aren't the people you find on gamespyware using shared cockpit.For the lowend offerings like Wilco's fleet aircraft, maybe it would help some sales, but even then it's unlikely as the people who'd buy it would probably buy it anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And so your answers are?Maybe we can both learn something instead of jumping to conclusions... :-)Best Regards, Donald Traill:-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>For the highend addons, it won't do a thing.>The customers for those aren't the people you find on>gamespyware using shared cockpit.>For the lowend offerings like Wilco's fleet aircraft, maybe it>would help some sales, but even then it's unlikely as the>people who'd buy it would probably buy it anyway.Your response illuminates a bit of a chicken and egg problem doesn't it?You won't find people using shared cockpit in high end complex aircraft on 'gamespyware' as you put it because most complex aircraft don't work in shared at all.By the way, Shared Cockpit works perfectly in direct-ip connection, using the gamespy network is not a requirement.I can think of no better use for shared cockpit than flying truly complex aircraft, aircraft that would not only benefit from two heads and four hands, but by law require them in real life.-mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, most people interested in things like shared cockpits are IMO not the kind of people who are interested in complex addons.So it's not a chicken and egg scenario, it's two completely different markets with little overlap.So while you may sell a few more copies if you include the option, it's unlikely to be enough to recover the increased development cost of the product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that is true, the survey will show it.One more post without addressing the survey; and the mods get an alert...Your answers???This ain't helping...Best Regards, Donald T. :-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you not know that jwenting's opinion is law?Shame on you all for not recognising the legend in his own mind that he is.......;-) FWIW, there seems to be plenty of 'serious' private sessions showing up in the FS multiplayer lobby. It's not all kids if you know where to look, and it requires a lot less hassle and software than VATSIM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So can I assume your answers are "A" for both? I'd rather not assume... :-)I am really curious as to the outcome of this survey. Over 50 views and so far one person responded to the survey in a useful way.Any more serious consideration of the survey?A personal flame war, or observations without scientifically valid answers to the survey is *not* what I'm after.Best Regards, Donald Traill:-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A+A for me....and I agree wrt the complex aircraft that they're the ones that need this feature most. I may be wrong, but I've always had the impression that services like Vatsim are dominated by the heavy iron pilots who are much more interested in realistic interaction with others than someone who's just tootling along in an ultralight admiring the scenery. It's only really the complex aircraft whose workload requires more than one person in the cockpit, and I think many people who buy them would jump at the chance of flying as first officer with an experienced pilot to show them the ropes -much easier (and more fun) than wading through several hundred pages of manuals.Also, I use the shared cockpit feature to divide the workload between two PCs, with one mostly just drawing the scenery and the other drawing my GPS and gauges. As a result I get almost double the fps on the scenery PC that I would do if it was handling everything. Again, it's the complex aircraft which would most benefit from this kind of load sharing.Cheers,DD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>So it's not a chicken and egg scenario, it's two completely different markets with little overlap.I dunno mate, it seems like a mighty big assumption given that there are no data points to collect from, ie: no complex addons that work in shared. The Aerosoft Twotter, lovely as it is and an aircraft I enjoy flying very much, doesn't quite count in my book as 'complex'. I don't see it as the difference between two markets, I see it as a market that hasn't been created yet, one with a high degree of potential. What if the Level-D 767 worked in shared mode? I don't even like airliners and I'd buy it!I don't think it's fair to assume that those who engage in shared cockpit flight aren't the sort of 'serious' simmers who purchase complex high end addon aircraft.I take my flying very seriously in reality and in the sim, and half of the dozens of people I fly online with regularly are either current or retired pilots. We all love complex highly realistic addons, and we love multi and shared flight. For us they are not mutually exclusive. The possibilities for a combination of complex and shared are just awesome. We'd love to have that cake and eat it too.Last time I checked every ride I had with my instructor when I was acquiring my PPL was a pretty good shared cockpit experience too. ;)Maybe you're right, maybe there's little overlap, but my gut feeling is that just the opposite is true. I guess we'll see when the first truly complex addon supports it.Shared cockpit compatibility was the reason I bought the Aerosoft Twotter, and I told them so.-mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far there is more evidence on our side, but let's get some more responses for validation...I don't mind the discussion or repeat posts, but everyone in this thread should answer the survey at least. That is the scientific way.P.S. I sent you a PM.Best Regards, Donald T. :-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First to the survey, since I am the biggest proponent of this and have made many posts, including the one the OP referenced...Most definatly A+A !!!!!Now to some assumptions made by another....I'm not sure who 'high end' users are by definition, but I certainly consider myself one. I buy EVERY addon that improves FSX, both for my own enjoyment and to support the efforts made by developers, those that take the time to 'do it right'.I fly ONLY in multiplayer, and most times in 'shared cockpit'. I have stopped buying aircraft that are touted as FSX ready, unless they specifically say they have been tested in shared cockpit. I have a hanger full of planes that don't work, and since MP/SC is a feature of FSX, I consider it false advertizing to claim a plane FSX compatible yet not enable this feature in addons.The reasons are many, but for me, realizm is paramount. And to model a plane that in real life requires 2 pilots, yet in FSX doesnt allow it, flat out sucks. Not only does having a second pilot add to the realizm, but it also allows us to train others in systems and aircraft they are not familiar with. As mentioned earlier in another post, SC guarentees at least 2 sales per cockpit, and with the group I fly with, many more. Developers that do not address this market are losing sales, plane and simple (pun intended).Another benefit that I have discovered, and completly blows me away is meeting people that I would never have known, through MP. Everytime we add another user to our group, we have a 'requirement' that they must take us on a flight around their home area. This usually involves up to 10 aircraft, and I now know more about South Africa, Turkey, Australia, and many other parts of the world than I ever did, not to mention making some wonderfull new friends!Those that have not started flying in MP simply do not know what they are missing, and I hope many more take the time to try it, its an eye opening experiance.JayCPL/SEL/MEL/ISTFS Addict

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wholeheartedly agree with PPFSA that shared cockpit and multi-player capabilities are without a doubt one of the most important breakthroughs in FSX.I consider myself a high-end user. In fact I consider myself a high-end buyer also.As do all of my clients and the people I fly with.And I am sure that such capabilities would impact sales and increase profits for developers.So for the sake of this poll:A+, A+Michael Greenblattwww.fs-gs.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I consider myself a buyer of highend addons and take my flying very seriously I would also have to say A+ A+.With all the addons out there and all the forums letting us know what works and what doesnt, my money stays in my pocket until I get the feeling that this or that addon is worth the money: I.E. Not ported from FS9, not a framerate hog, decent textures, a clickable VC and a shared cockpit that allows me to really fly as copilot along with a more experinced Pilot and learn the ropes, then I can fly as pilot and pass my newfound knowledge on to my copilot.That would be my preference as to the future of FSX.Until then I am saving my money for the addons that will be really worth buying ,,, BUT when?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do strongly agree with troppo and ramsa A+, A+This way it makes it as real as it gets if I may say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I vote "A" on both, simply because it's the future, because it's neat and I like it, and because it expands awareness of the whole concept and general awareness of multi-crew flying, which is certainly good for my add-ons.However, I had some of my users tell me that if the high-end 3rd party planes (PMDG, LDS, Flight1, etc) were able to successfully incorporate this technology, that it'd would be the end of FS2Crew.Well, I replied that on the contrary it would help FS2Crew because it would greatly expand awareness of the whole multi-crew concept.Personally, my outlook on share cockpit functionality is that if it ever comes with the high-end 3rd complex aircraft, it won't be for a while yet. I don't see the current stable of high end addons being re-worked simply due to the associated risk of breaking something, not to mention the development time for probably what wouldn't result in that much greater sales.Frankly, I think 99.9 percent of all users would still buy a PMDG 747 or LDS 767 regardless of if it has working shared cockpit functionality or not.My two cents,Bryan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

B + BThe capability for shared cockpits is nothing new and has existed as long as there has been FSIPC and WIDE-FS. The only reason that the capability is more widely known now is because MS included their version of FSIPC as part of FSX. Make no mistake that developers have looked at this functionality for years and obviously deemed it unattractive for any number of reasons. I too have wished for a live shared cockpit for 'true' realism when flying aircraft that require two pilots for operation, however, even with the touted inclusion of such a thing in FSX it has not happened no will it on a platform wide scale in the near future. With FSX approaching its twilight years (with vast numbers of users STILL to adopt the FSX platform) and many high fidelity aircraft already released from the top shelf developers (as well as some promising new comers), how many now will go back and develop that functionality in hopes that enough people will be interested to pay for the costs of redevelopment? Anything that extends development time detracts from revenue. And if you are going to detract from revenue it better darn sure be worth the delay in terms of customers flocking to your product. I doubt that this is it.Apropo, with the price of some aircraft already approaching $80US+ how much more should be charged for functionality MOST users will never use? Additionally, with add-on sales revenue split between FS9 and FSX (which has turned out very badly for most developers) how many developers want to further segment their revenue streams into those who want, and are willing to pay for, dual-pilot cockpits vs those who do not? At any given point you can do a search and find posts from simmers who "would pay extra only if..." and in 99% of the cases it doesn't come to fruition because the developers are smart enough to differencieate a niche vis a v mainstream attraction (if there can be such a thing since FS in itself is a small niche market).At the end of the day, I DO hope that there is finally a high fidelity shared cockpit aircraft, I'd buy it. But putting myself into developers' shoes, I certainly wouldn't hold my breath.Regards,Mike T.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Specific question?What exactly are the features you need/like the best in shared cockpit?Specific and complete answers will do:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, 'must haves' are:APFlapsGearLightsGuages and switchesFMS if available, nice but not criticalPretty much all the stuff that the ES planes work now :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Specific? A seamless shared cockpit, so work is divided. Like RealAir has acheived with every product released so far (so I am really looking forward to the Duke.)By that I mean if my copilot alters his aircraft, mine also is altered.Since reality seems to be breaking out all over, failing that, everything that when changed can affect the safety of the aircraft if a control transfer is made. SoAutopilotGPS or FMCCompared with that, modeling flap switches, lights and the like would be relatively easy. So we are left with the whole kit and kaboodle.The CS C130 is the last aircraft for FSX that I will buy that is not shared cockpit compatible unless an FS9 version is included, and then it better really grab me.But c'mon now, don't be shy... you're not just a dev, you are a simmer. What are your answers?Best Regards, Donald T:-waveFLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A+ANobody here has yet mentioned the MADDOG 2006 , which is TOTALLY shareable. It uses its own connection software built into the aircraft, and works 99.9% of the time if you follow the setups correctly.Once running, it transforms the FS experience in my view. The aircraft itself is glorious (and complex) and requires two pilots to fly it properly - as do real commercial aircraft!Its really spooky to see your fmc being programmed and changing pages when you are not touching it :-)I totally subscribe to shared aircraft if realism is the goal, and this is the only complex aircraft that does it brilliantly- just as well its a fabulous aircraft to fly!Why more manufacturers havent spotted this gap in the market is beyond me- whats the point in realism when you miss out the fact that single pilot operation is almost impossible, and in most cases not actually allowed. ?Multicrew is the way forward. You can even use it perfectly on Vatsim (with fsinn) and THAT really is fabulous , having the PNF handle the radios!Did I mention I love the maddog btw ? LOLOLOLCheersBP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my capacity as an AVSIM reviewer, I would certainly be in favour of seeing more shared cockpits. I totally do not agree that having shared cockpits would be the death of utilities like FS2Crew or Flight Deck Companion. However, also as a reviewer, and I am speaking only for myself here and not the other reviewers, online flight sim and especially shared cockpits simply do not get tested for my reviews. It's not something I have the time or patience to do, as the review on its own is enough work as it is. This is something I do feel badly about, as I do strive to make my reviews as comprehensive as I possibly can. For now, if you are interested in a shared-cockpit experience, i would think that your best resource is the multiplayer forum, and failing that, to ask questions in the developers' own forums, or to e-mail them and ask them nicely (NICELY!!) about the qualities of their shared cockpit. I think this is a very interesting topic, and I am eager to see how events will develop with shared cockpit systems in FSX and beyond.Jeff ShylukAssistant Managing EditorSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very strong A + A to both.I totally disagree with jwentings comments. PMDG/LDS products with shared cockpit are what i'm waiting for, why shouldn't two serious pilots fly on gamespy. Its the future and would be the icing on the cake of our great addon aircraft.Simon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites