Anyone use American Flyer's IFR Refresher "Missions"

[RobdeVries 28]

Hi,What product exactly are you referring to? Could you give us a link? The only thing I saw was this IFR refresher course for 695 dollar...fairly?Rob "Holland&Holland" de Vries http://kewlceo.com/forums/style_emoticons/...crazy_pilot.gif"To go up, pull the stick back. To go down, pull the stick back harder"

[michal 44]

It should be obvious - go to their website, they only have one IFR course for MSFS.Michael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

[RobdeVries 28]

That's the one I'm referring to, wisecrack...Rob "Holland&Holland" de Vries http://kewlceo.com/forums/style_emoticons/...crazy_pilot.gif"To go up, pull the stick back. To go down, pull the stick back harder"

[Guest dougwells]

Ooops, thought I posted it in my original message. Guess I left it out. Here it is....Yes, it is expensive, ~$500 without the yoke and other stuff.....http://www.americanflyers.net/instrumenttr...sher_course.htm

[RobdeVries 28]

Indeed Doug it's expensive. But if it counts towards making some of your instrument hours (which I doubt)I guess it's a bargain. Are these meant for FSX? I only see them offering FS9.I guess this might be more fun (and cheaper)...http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/fsxpilot.htm. It's a review for the book and flights called Microsoft Flight Simulator X for Pilots: Real World Training by Jeff Van West and Kevin Lane-Cummings Rob "Holland&Holland" de Vries http://kewlceo.com/forums/style_emoticons/...crazy_pilot.gif"To go up, pull the stick back. To go down, pull the stick back harder"

[Geofa 108]

As soon as I saw the missions of fsx I hoped for much the same-tough ifr scenerios and emergency scenerios based on possible even rw documented cases.Sadly this still has not manifested. I am keeping my fingers crossed-what a wonderful training tool if/when something like this comes out.Sounds like you use the "sim" the same way I do. It also sounds like this "course" is basically just ms simulator with possibly some text based scenerios and not true missions..GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Guest dougwells]

Yes, I do you the sim the same way you do. FSX is such a great tool for practicing IFR procedure and approaches. RealityXP's 430 & 530 EASILY saved me $1,000 in real world airplane flying.Mindstar Aviation's G1000 also has easily saved me over $1,000 in training costs. Both have been great tools.More importantly, FSX has made me a better real world pilot as the demands of raising 2 kids and working leaves less time to run out to the airport. With FSX, I can stay sharp and have a great time even if I only have 30 minutes or an hour of free time.How GREAT would it be to have a series of real "Missions" putting you through the paces of some real world situations. Frankly, I'm surprised one of the monthly magazines has not done this yet. They could talk about an issue in the magazine and then let you "relive" the situation on an FSX mission. Boy...how cool would that be. Each month a new challenging situation. Mess it up...no problem. Restart and do it again.Anyone seen anything like that?????

[michal 44]

>That's the one I'm referring to, wisecrack...OK, then don't ask which one :-blaMichael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

[michal 44]

>Mindstar Aviation's G1000 also has easily saved me over $1,000>in training costs. There is something even better coming than Mindstar G1000 ... Flight1's Cessna Mustang G1000. :-coolMichael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

[brucek 38]

I agree Geof and Doug. I too use the sim to practice IFR stuff, and yes, the RXP GNS430 is perfect for this. I too have had to cut my budget due to some changes in my situation (I'm lucky that I still have my job, however some health issues with my wife have been very costly).As far as missions are concerned, I have often thought of creating one, although I do not know how they are made (maybe there's a "101" somewhere on this?). I would love to put a mission together that had random holds, random hold entries required with both left and right turns, and even a random DME or non-standard timed holds, failed glidescopes and other nav aids, etc. I would really like to put together a fill IPC if I knew where to start.One of the best books I have ever read on IFR flight is "IFR, A Structuered Approach" by John C. Eckalbar. In it he goes through a series of sample flights. Using ASX I can recreate the weather at the airports as he flies from one to another in his Baron (with screenshots from Elite included). Another FSX flight I enjoy, if I fly somethibng that can make the MEA of 16,000' over the "Rocks" to the west of me, is fly from my home airport of KBJC to 20V (Kremmling, CO). It has an approach "VOR DME or GPS-A", with very high minimums and a lot of planning to get down from the minimums to be able to make a "normal landing". It also has 2 DME arcs into the VOR (RLG) which adds the fun of one of those to the approach also. :)Good thread! Bruce.Bruce.

[Guest fsxmissionguy]

If you look closely at the offering, you discover a couple of reasons why the cost is so high:1) They are selling you a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator X (with their markup added, one presumes. Do you already own FSX?)2) They are selling you a flight yoke (I'd bet you already have one).3) There are 3 manuals (for example ... "Advanced Instrument Training Manual for Single Pilot Operations." I bet you already own IFR manuals).Then, you get 11 "lessons." I don't know if this means "missions" in the strict sense of the word.And, at $695.00, I'm not about to buy it just to review it. However, if American Flyers wants to send me a copy for evaluation purposes, I'd be only too happy to review the missions and give a report here (and likely boost sales.)Cheers,

[Guest dougwells]

Yes, they do give you alot of stuff that all of us simmers already have. This link offers the package without the flight sim yoke for $545. Still not cheap. It does offer the "money back guarantee" which makes me more comfortable. My standards for a $500 plus package will rightfully be pretty high (but fair).I'm really interested in what folks have used to date for IFR missions? Stuff like Eckalbar's "IFR, A Structured Approach" and "FSX forPilots: Real World Training"? Have you found anything else useful?One thing I have used on the Elite system are their training "scenarios". Each scenario has about 20 flight where you pre-position yourself at some location 30 or 50 miles away from the airport and they have pre-recorded ATC instructions (with lots of background chatter) for your flight. What I really like is they include changes, not just the "expected" approach. In one case I was cleared for the ILS to 19R and at the FAF, they asked me to step over to 19L once visual. VERY COOL. Just like what happens in our real lifes. I believe Elite has 3 sets of scenarios and each one costs ~ $49. A real bargain if you happen to already have Elite.Does anything like this exists for FSX?

[brucek 38]

Hi Doug,I also have the IFR approach scenarios for Elite. They are very good, albeit also very dated. They will work with any Elite a/c other than the Kingair and the MD80. I once did a little BASIC coding for this company, and while I am not a software writer (I'm a financial analyst, a very interesting time to be one I should add), I know something about the simplistic code structure that is from the old FS98 'adventure" script format, compiled for Elite. The reason for the issues with the faster a/c is that the programmer is making assumptions for how long it will take to receive an ATC instruction then arrive at the point where that instruction needs to be implimented. While I had some fun writing some stuff for this company, I was no programmer and then my real job opened up and that was the end of it. The "controller" voices are the people that I used to work with, btw.One aspect of these scenarios is that you can change the weather and the approach will change with it, and as well there are various randomized routines such as the "side step" that you mentioned.If only writing missions was as easy as the old FS98 adventure code, and I had some spare time, I woiuld love to get do some stuff for FSX. :)Bruce.

[Guest dougwells]

Bruce - how cool that you were part of the team that put together Elite's scenarios. Do I understand correctly that I could run the scenario at one weather setting and get a certain approach and that with different weather, I would get a different approach. I never realized that.....Could you give me an idea of how difficult it is to write a quality mission. Would you say a 30 minute mission would take 40 man hours for a knowledgable programmer to create? Or is it more like one man month or more? I realize this is way to generalistic but I'd appreciate you thoughts on it. If its 40 man hours, it might make economic sense for a programmer to tackle the job. If its one man month, likely not.I'm enjoying this post immensely, thanks for everyone's input!

[brucek 38]

Hi Doug,no no no- I was not a part of the writing of the Elite series scenarios, I was a contractor (for a short while) writing scripts for a series of adventures for FS98 for this company (which never saw the light of day in production, maybe because I was not a programmer :) ). But the Elite series is made with the same basic code script as the old FS98 stuff was.As far as missions are concerned, I have never made one, and so cannot answer your question, aorry. It uses a much more sophisticated langauge than the older .apl quasi-BASIC stuff that I wrote, but I don't know if it easier or harder, I have never tried as I don't know where to start :). (I had taken some "basic" BASIC classes at college, so that was how I could do the .apl stuff).Thanks, Bruce.