Hi

I almost love the FSS 727 Passenger.   But getting it to capture the localiser and glide slope is driving me to distraction.   It is not the general procedure that is the problem - because if I start a flight at the runway with engines running it works every time.  But if I start from cold and dark, there is something I am clearly not switching on or some other tip or trick I'm missing. 

Scenario 1

1  I have started the flight at the runway, all systems ready to go

2  I follow the route using 'GPS' setting of the NAV/GPS toggle switch

3 When approaching the airport, at the correct intercept height and the aircraft at the correct speed & configuration and the ILS frequency correctly set, I switch to NAV

4  When the localiser is captured, the APD A/P  VOR/LOC lights up green 

  

5  The yellow positioning dot at the bottom of the artificial horizon gives me the prompt to use 'Heading' to turn left or right until the dot centres.  The glide slope arrow also activates when in range

 

6 And all is good and AJZip2 is a happy chappy

 

 

Scenario 2

1  This is where I have started from 'Cold & Dark'.  As far as I can see - both on the pilot/copilot panels or the engineer's panels - all is good.  No warning lights.  All miscellaneous switches on, as far as I can see

2 When I start approaching the airport, the green VOR/LOC lights go green as above.  All is looking good.  

BUT

The  yellow dots and glide slope arrow on the Artificial Horizon are now completely unresponsive.  The left/right position dot doesn't move and the glide slope arrow doesn't activate even if I am, visually, on the perfect approach

 

3.  And, having spent maybe 2 hours+ setting up the nav alignment, programming and start up plus the flight, I have to do a go-around and land manually and AJZip2 is a very unhappy chappy.

I've watched every video I can find.  I've read the manual.  Clearly it is me missing a switch or something during the cold and dark start up - but I can't begin to imagine what or where that would be when EVERYTHING else seems the same as Scenario 1.

Any clues?

 

 

 

Edited March 22Mar 22 by AJZip2

It could also be the airport.  In the 2024 HJET , 2020 airports seem harder to capture than 2024 ones.

dd

I think that to capture a glideslope both NAV units must be tuned to the ILS frequency. Having only one tuned could explain the discrepancy.

Are you doing a RNAV approach or a LOC approach? 

jeffg

6 minutes ago, Jeffg817 said:

Are you doing a RNAV approach or a LOC approach? 

jeffg

I'm using LOC.  I could try with RNAV if that might help

1 hour ago, Flying Goat said:

I think that to capture a glideslope both NAV units must be tuned to the ILS frequency. Having only one tuned could explain the discrepancy.

Yes I agree, but yes, both are tuned in.

@AJZip2

Hi:

You are saying that the VOR/LOC indication lights up green, but I don’t see it on the annunciation panel in your screenshot (unless I’m missing something), nor are the LOC (and GS) annunciations right above the ADI dial active. 

Are you really receiving (and capturing) the ILS signals? Could you try another (aka different) ILS approach with DME to see that you’re indeed getting the continuous readout of the DME distance in the cockpit?

Edited March 22Mar 22 by P_7878

3 hours ago, Sky_Pilot071 said:

It could also be the airport.  In the 2024 HJET , 2020 airports seem harder to capture than 2024 ones.

dd

Hmmm - that is a decent thought.  I'll try it with a different one tomorrow.  That said, I would have thought it would affect the 'start from the runway' attempts too as the landings are the same airports in both cases.  That's why I wondered if it was a module I might be missing in the cold start up that meant that the indicators on the artificial horizon unit wasn't being activated.

Worth a try nonetheless - thanks for the suggestion.

3 minutes ago, P_7878 said:

@AJZip2

Hi:

You are saying the VOR/LOC indication lights up green, but I don’t see it on the annunciation panel in your screenshot (unless I’m missing something), nor are the LOC (and GS) annunciations right above the ADI dial active. 

Are you really capturing the ILS signals? Could you try another ILS approach with DME to see that you’re indeed getting the continuous readout of the DME distance in the cockpit?

Yes - they do light up green in all cases.  The photo was just to indicate which instruments I am referring to rather than having to do yet another cold and dark start up. 😊  By the way, I have the same problem whether I use the old fashioned CIV-A coordinate equipment or the modern Garmin option.  That said, I am only using the Garmin to get me to localiser range.

When I do a hot start from a runway, the ILS at the destination brings me right down the glide slope to the runway, so I'm sure that is being correctly captured.  For exactly the same flight but from a cold dark start, I am equally sure it is not capturing the ILS signal - neither directionally nor glide slope.  It's weird which was why I wondered if I was just forgetting to switch something on when I do a cold start.

It's getting late in UK so I will sign off until the morning but very appreciative of your thoughts and suggestions, folks, and will try a few of them out in the morning 👍

Oh..OK…

I don’t have this airplane, @AJZip2.

BTW, I see mention of the two Radio Master Switches behind the Captain’s seat, in the circuit breaker panel, on the left wall, that must be ON… 

Could you check them…?

6 hours ago, P_7878 said:

Oh..OK…

I don’t have this airplane, @AJZip2.

BTW, I see mention of the two Radio Master Switches behind the Captain’s seat, in the circuit breaker panel, on the left wall, that must be ON… 

Could you check them…?

Hmmm...that IS interesting.  I'll check 😊   Many thanks for the suggestion!

8 hours ago, P_7878 said:

BTW, I see mention of the two Radio Master Switches behind the Captain’s seat, in the circuit breaker panel, on the left wall, that must be ON… 

Could you check them…?

You mean these two large switches that are OFF every time I start up Cold and Dark?  

 

I freaking LOVE this forum    🤸‍♂️🤸‍♀️🤸‍♂️

@P_7878  - if I could award you 25 green up arrows, I would!!!  

Man -  I just LOVE this forum and the learned folks like yourself willing to help crazy folks like me 

 

I'll do another flight later this afternoon - but I'm pretty certain that will be it.  Almost certainly, when a flight starts at the beginning of the runway, these will already be on.  But not, of course, starting Cold and Dark.

Forever grateful 👍 

Edited March 23Mar 23 by AJZip2

Just repeated the flight (with the Garmin for this go) AND IT WORKED!!!!  

Thanks once more to all of you, and especially to @P_7878 for pinning down where my error possibly was...and indeed was!! 

 

When I have some more time, I will repeat the flight with the more period-correct CIV-A INS navigation system.

Thanks again all!!! 

Photographic evidence that, at last, it did all work for me.  Thanks again, folks  🙂