"While on the subject of VCs, I must admit I love using them, too. One question though; has anyone worked out how to use them in other aircraft? For example, the Convair 580 has a pretty good VC, and I would like to use it in the new YS-11. Transferring the panel folder over works for the 2D panel, but no 3D is available. I've even tried copying the textures from the 580's 'texture' folder over, to no avail. This has been the same case for other VCs I've tried in the past. Can anyone please help? "To my knowledge this is not possible. As I understand it the VC is created and built into the same model as the exterior. MArried together permantently.Pete

Well, the biggest reason I can find for that is that a VC is more of a panel in that you need to place gauges at certain coordinates, using no external tools (besides notepad), unlike with 2d panels (which there are numerous tools to help more novice panel designers. This means that even if a person is incredible at designing a visual model, they may not have the patience nor the skill needed to spend the time finding base pictures and then placing gauges.On the other hand, I agree that they should have more VC's in freeware releases, because otherwise the hobby won't advance. Hopefully we'll see more designers get into panel making, and see more VC's with freeware AC.Scott

I've wondered about that too. Seems a VC would be an integral component of an aircraft design. Although, the patience and skill factors might deter even the best designer from developing one.Another factor might be the newness of the VC. I've read on the forum where someone wants to delete the VC. Oh well. It's a preference choice agreed. But in order for the flight sim genre to advance and bring in new flyers, I believe Microsoft has done a great service to us by introducing the VC into its latest edition. To enhance my view forward, I just use the Ctrl-Shift-Enter-Backspace keys, per the instructions, to look out over the top of the panel. No problem there, even on final. Having a hat switch joystick solves the up-down glance movements between instruments and windshield.But in general, I have to agree that sooner or later, most 3rd person developers will become skilled at providing a VC.Would designing a Boeing 727 with VC be too difficult, since the Boeing 737 cockpit is almost identical (except for the 3rd engine gauges)? Maybe Mike Stone would know.Rick

Here's the one James and I are working on-B33:http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

Pabra: "Anyone can make a descent 2d panel..." Really? Where are yours? How come most of what I download looks like crap, has overlapping gauges, or gauges (like the default KingAir) with black box backrounds pasted on light coloured panel art?? A good 2d panel is rare as gold, as proven by FSD, the Falcon 50, the new ERJ-145. Personally, I could do without most of the VC's out there. They look like old tech resolutions (except FSD of course!) and in the end, though they are promising signs for the future, they are not functional. They are not "cockpits" at all.They don't work.They are eye candy....a frame for viewing the world.I'd rather be in clouds and turbulence having to "work" my panel, radios, AP, etc., and if I want to see, I'd rather be full screen.The wave of the future in panel tech? Absolutely. By hardly comparable to real VC's like in Jane's et.al. where you actually can use the gauges, buttons, etc.michael

Check out the new Dreamfleet Archer. You can hardly tell the difference between the 2D and VC panels. It would sure be nice to also be able to adjust radios and such from the VC view, but that probably will be down the road.

>They are not "cockpits" at all. >>They don't work. >>They are eye candy....a frame for viewing the world. >>"They don't work" ...... Sure they do! With a decent size monitor & use of the ctrl enter keys, they can provide a great sense of peripheral vision that really add's the sensation of motion when on final approach. Also works wonders for airport pattern manuvers. Just another way to enjoy the sim when not IFR in the clouds somewhere!L.Adamson

>A good 2d panel is rare as gold, I agree. And until the VC can match the best 2D panels (say top 5) - either front or side views I will use them solely.Michael J.

well I should have known you would find something to pick at!! :)Yeah, okay, they work. But you know what I mean. Even your own description of enhancing the sensation of motion does fit in with my description of a "frame" for viewing, agreeing that it's a pretty damn nice viewing improvement.But to me, if I can't adjust something, if everything is a picture and not a workable button/gauge, then it's just scenery.michaelp.s. the fact that we all have different tastes and yet this sim provides for most of them shows how little we really should be slagging MS.

So I guess it all depends on what tickles your twine.I have a good friend who enjoys FS when he's flying a heavy in zero visibility, high winds, and rain. It's 2D panel for him except when he's taxing.For me, it's fluffy clouds and sunshine with light winds flying in the mountains or along a coastline. It's VC for me. I use auto tune and the keyboard keys to adjust things. Or, I bring up a window with the desired gauge (GPS, radio stack, etc) use it, then close it.My Dad and I used to fly a Luscombe 8E (N1181B)until it was sold for lack of funds. The guy it was sold to stalled it 500 ft above the ground and killed himself and his passenger 6 months later. The wreckage occupied the front page Sunday newspaper.I gave up flying.When I fly in the VC, it's just like old times. Smile on my face as I gaze at the world around me. CFS2 Warbirds in FS2K2 are really a blast!! Big honkin' radials and a set of silky turbo Allisons really put a smile on my face from the VC. VFR of course.The 2D panel is just work. I only use it when setting auto pilot settings when I pretend I'm flying a 737. Rick

>So I guess it all depends on what tickles your twine. You are right here.>>The 2D panel is just work.This may be the case for you. 'Clickability' and IFR aspect of 2D panel is just another factor for me. I have no problem admiring the scenery, sunsets while gazing from 2D cockpits. As a matter of fact it is the scenery passing down below while having the believable aircraft textures, upholstery, plastics, "floatation devices" signs, window knobs, screws, etc, etc, that make the biggest "being there" impression on me. Unless VC can reproduce the same textures with the same overall detail I won't get hooked on them.Michael J.

Tom,You mention Ithaca and your name, Grund, is the name of a small field south of the "city". Are you from Ithaca or this a coincidence?David

I'm amazed nowhere in this entire thread is the mention of TrackerIR. I guarantee if you already like the VC view, you simply have to have Tracker IR! I can't overemphasize the realism of panning your view around the cockpit simply by turning/moving your head - and it moves completely in synch with your head, not in slomo like your hat switch. I haven't used the hat switch in a month! As for manipulating the gauges, I cannibalized an old keyboard, bought some switches at RadioShack, including a little project box, and now can manipulate all the major things I need (OBS,HDG,ALT bug,BARO). The other switches are on panels on my second and third monitors. The whole thing was relatively cheap and it was definitely easy to do. Start with the Tracker IR and your sim lives will change. It's that good!David

I remember that game, it was excellent. I espeically liked the Campaign, it was dynamic and never had the same mission twice. Theres a new combat flight sim coming out with a dynamic campaign as well, I believe it's called "Lock On: Modern Air Combat" but I'm not sure.mw

I agree. I like the look and the wow of the 3d panel, but when flying you have to be adjusting, clicking, and setting. When you can do that in a 3d panel it will be great-right now it limits serious flying because of this. I suppose if you have a complete hardware cockpit setup then it could work well presently.I also prefer the look of reality of the 2d right now-but the 3d are getting close.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif