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Improving Coastlines

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Hi all,I am a beginner of designing sceneries in FSX.I am using FSX_KML - thanks to doug - and it works great.Now I want to create a more precise Coast line with beaches near my new home Spain/Catalonia.My new and short "test coast lines" are visible in FSX but the line is winding thrue the ocean and land. I have learned so far that I have to exclude something. I did it, but obviously not in the right way.My questions:Do I have to create a polygon and tag it with a landclass_poly to overwrite the water?Do I have to create a exclude_polygon with the waterclass_poly which is used by FSX? (and in reverse when the new coastline is deep on land)In which sequence should this be done by creating the *.kml File?Must the exclude definition be in a seperate *.kml File?And if it must be a seperated file - is it important which sequence the *bgl file will have under "Addon Scenery"?Are there other things to take into consideration to successfully exclude Landclass and waterclass following a new coastline?I hope these are not to much questions and they aren

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Hola Bodo,That program is great and very easy to use, but perhaps creating a replacement Hydro Polygon will not be so straightforward with it, since Hydro Polygons must have an elevation value in the shape file. So, the question is, can that program add that?Also, generally it is best to have everything in one single file, the exclusion and replacement elements, and in that program instead everything is separate.In principle, you would:1. check the default scenery in TMFViewer in order to determine the Hydro Polygons that must be excluded;2. create an exclude for them;3. draw replacement Hydro Polygons that have the same extent as those excluded;4. compile them together as a cvx (Combined Vectors FS X) bgl file;Please note that a land class polygon is not the same thing as land class.Land class is applied to the base terrain and has a precise extent - about 1 kilometer per side depending on the blend mask. They are not drawn as vectors and do not use either shapefiles or the Shp2Vec tool.Land class polygons can have any shape or size and are draped over the base terrain. They are contained in shapefiles and processed with Shp2Vec.If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask, but it may be some time before people start drifting back to this forum because of the holidays, so please do not get discouraged.Muchas felicidades.Luis

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Hola Luis,thank you very much for your friendly comments!Yes, you are right it

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Hola Bodo,Here is the documentation.There are 2 different kinds of Hydro Polygons:1. normal HPX(Hydro Polygons) that display in the terrain;2. HGX (Hydro Polygons GPS) that are supposed to be simplified versions (less detail) and that only display in the GPS display. Probably they are simpler for performance reasons.In TMFViewer, the light blue is the normal HPX and the dark blue is HGX.To remove the HGX from the display, go to the menu and un-check it. This makes everything easier to understand.The white areas are nothing - it is just the background and there are no terrain elements there.So, you first take a look at the default terrain in order to see the existing HPX that must be excluded, for example:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/163937.jpgSo, here I must draw an exclude that intersects those 6 HPX. The exclude does not have to be very large and should not be larger than what has to be excluded, or it might include HPX that are beyond those.So, I made a small exclude and drew a replacement for that island. And and here is what I got:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/163938.jpgYou can see the exclude shape that I have drawn for demonstration purposes. All the water is gone for a large area, much more than I wanted.Why? Because that is the extent of the default HPX that were excluded. By removing them, only the base ground is left.So, any replacement Hydro Polygons must have the same extents as the HPX that they replace.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/163942.jpgHere, I have made the new water larger than the default Hydro Polygons, but that should not be a problem, since it is only water displaying on top of water.Once that is done, the new scenery completely fills the area of the old:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/163941.jpgIf you have any problems, please do let us know.Best regards.Luis

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Hola Luis,this is so kind of you. What a chunk of work. Thank you!!!Your explanations brought me closer to all this things. Otherwise I still need a bridge to understand my special case.But first back to your example. Just to understand you in the right way. In your case you wanted to exclude the whole existing islands execpt the biggest one, right? And you wanted to create a new group of islands instead of the old one, OK? In that case you excluded 6 areas which have different sizes (another open point for me - why they have different sizes?). The area 1 touches the big island but it covers it not in total. Is this the reason why it will be not excluded?When you exclude something - do you use "Exclude__all" or "Exclude_Hydro...." depending what is showing at your right klick using TMFviewer?What kind of adjustments are necessary by using TMFviewer to get the right grids? It is possible to show the areas and intersections with this program? My level of Detail is checked as "Standard". Is this OK?Is it important which LOD Grid and QMID Grid is selected?Now a quick step back to my special problem.In my case there are additional problems (at least I think so). I am not surrounded by water. My shoreline partly goes in the water and partly in the country. How would you proceed if you wanted to redesign the coast of Catalonia completely? How would the existing shoreline have to be excluded? As a result of drawing winding new shorelines on an existing coast there will be new parts of land and water. Where water was before, a small piece of land exists now. Where country was before, water has to be build. And all this in an permanent change. Perhaps I see this from a to complicate point of view?But I think a general problem is that I work with Google Earth to draw my polygons and lines. In GE it is no possibility to see the intersections. This brings me to my next question. What software do you use for drawing the polygons? Would it be possible for me to use the same for my FSX projects?Luis, to document for you what and how I do my things at the moment I have made some pictures. But I don

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Hi -- i am working on a little island building tutorial that should be ready in a couple of days. It really is just covering about the same thing as in Luis' post. The point being to get rid of enough of the default hydro polys, so that all the area your new shoreline will cover is free of the default hydro polys. The actual area is determined by the size and shape of the default polys. once the "old water" is gone, you can create "new water, using your actual coastline where appropriate, but also making your polygon(s) big enough to cover all the area away from your coast that should be water. The problem will be that the area that your new coast covers probably won't exactly match the "old water" polygons. You might need to extend some to get a full coverage.scott s..

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Hi Scott,thanks for your answer and I look forward to your announced documentation.Now my impression also is, that it is essential to know the size of a given Poly. One forgets easily, that the actual background was formed differently as the really little things one can implement. On the other hand you are right, that the Test-Size of a new coast strip shouldn

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Hola Luis,what a excellent description you have sent!Thank you very much for that all!Now I have to do some homework and you can work on your projects.Muchas gracias por tu oferta de escribir en castellano, pero mi castellano es malisimo!!!Only with help of my wife it was possible to write down something like this. By the way, my wife is from Spain/Barcelona. The whole live she was dreaming to live in Spain. We got married 38 nice years ago in Munich Germany. I am born in Salzburg/Austria but I am German.Now - since 3 years we live near Barcelona. I like the Spanish mentality and the warmth of the people very much. In addition, there is very good meal and wine as well as sun. What do you need more? Back to the dry but fascinating FSX.The following pictures shows the small area for my test project. http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/164020.jpgNow my interim result of the last night. It shows what I have learned from you and Scott. I am sure that it is the size of the polygon which don

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Grueses Bodo,I have been often in Salzburg and love it very much. Also I have spent many happy moments in Innsbruck and the Nordkette and Sudkette (Igls) and I love the Tirol. As well as Wien which is one of my favorite cities. Oh yes, and I have spent much, much time in Muenchen, and particularly in the Math

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Very clear and helpfull reply Luis!ThanX and a very Happy 2007and please do continue in this way...BertEHTW

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>Hi -- i am working on a little island building tutorial that>should be ready in a couple of days. It really is just>covering about the same thing as in Luis' post. ETC.>scott s.>. That would be very helpfull Scott.To help us starter-designers with good tutorials.ThanX in advance and All the best for 2007.BertEHTW

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A very small world, Bodo, that is for sure. And we do have a tendency to get around in it!I think I see your problem.When you draw a new coast, you must first determine what Hydro Polygon will be replaced. Here is yours:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/164068.jpgSo, you will have to exclude all of that, and then you must replace it all. Your exclude polygon does not have to be very large - it only has to intersect the terrain that you want to exclude:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/164069.jpgYour new Hydro Polygon must cover that same area as what you remove, or otherwise land will show where there should be water.But, your problem with water is something else. You seem to have drawn a Hydro Polygon and then drawn a Land Class Polygon to define land.But, Land Class Polygons do not display over water. It is important to know this. Land Class Polygons will only display over land. So, you must modify your Hydro Polygon to make it align with the real shoreline as such:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/164070.jpgIf you do this, then your Land Class Polygon will not be over water and it will display correctly.By the way, in TMFViewer, you can choose what terrain elements to display, in case you wish to see what is underneath an exclude:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/164071.jpgHere I have removed GPS water and Excludes from the display.I hope that this will solve your little problem.Best regards.Luis

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Hi Luis,thank you very much for that last post.In the meanwhile I have drawn the whole coast with 5 Shorelines.Your explanations will help me a lot, but may I ask you some additional questions?1.) You described the Hydro polygon as quad 11. From which source you get this information? I was looking everywhere and couldn

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Hello Bodo,Congratulations, you have come very far. It is always difficult to realize that one must create a very large coast to replace the default - it is so much work.About your questions, let's see:1. The LOD grid and the QMID (quad mesh identifier) grid are essentially the same thing.In previous versions of FS, we referred to a LOD grid. This is just a grid of quadrants that becomes progressively smaller - for example, a LOD 5 quadrant is divided in 4 parts and each part is a LOD 6 quadrant. A LOD 10 quadrant is divided in 4 parts and each is LOD 11, etc. The LOD grid was used to delimit the maximum size of terrain elements. For instance, a road that spanned more than 1 LOD 13 quadrant was automatically cut at the boundaries of the quadrants, and only each separate part was coded for that particular quadrant. This breaking up of code was more efficient for the FS engine.In FS X, the LOD grid has been supplanted by the QMID grid. There is no particular difference between the 2 grids, except in the naming - add 2 to LOD to get QMID. So, LOD 5 is QMID 7, LOD 9 is QMID 11, LOD 13 is QMID 15, etc.You should be able to find the extents of the QMID grid in the Terrain S.D.K. documentation.While in previous versions of FS, terrain elements were broken down relative to a LOD 13 grid (which is quad 15 now), this has changed in FS X.In FS X, terrain elements are delimited by the quad 11 grid (which was LOD 9). So, all Hydro Polygons are broken down into separate quad 11 parts, as are roads, and shorelines, and streams, etc.There are some exceptions: freeway traffic lines are limited by the quad 15 grid, perhaps because of their specific function that might be more code-intensive.And Hydro Polygons have a maximum size of quad 11, but can be broken down into smaller parts all the way down to quad 15. The size of the Hydro Polygon will depend on the curve of a coast, how complex it is, and how it impacts on the geometry of the quadrant, I suppose, but the FS Team does not reveal the inner workings of the game so that is just supposition.This does not mean that you cannot draw terrain elements as big as you want. On the contrary, you can make any element any size and not worry about it. Shp2Vec will handle the necessary separation of the code into the quadrants for you.2. To display a QMID grid in TMFViewer, go to the menu and select that qmid value. You can also display a LOD grid (even though it is no longer used) and if you display a quad 11 grid and a LOD 9 grid, you will see that they are the same.3. How did I know your Hydro Polygon was quad 11? I displayed a quad 11 grid and saw that the grid lines fell exactly on the lines of the Hydro Polygon.4. When you right-click on a terrain element in TMFViewer, you will get a GUID for it. GUID is Globally-Unique Identifier. GUIDs are subsets of UUID, which is a Universal Unique Identifier.They are 32-character hexadecimal values. In FS X, all GUIDs must be in the so-called "Registry" format, that is, {8-4-4-4-12} with the "curly braces" around them.UUID (and GUID) are supposed to be unique numbers, because of the way that they are generated: a combination of network address, timestamp, random elements, etc. An interesting aspect of UUID is that it was part of the Open Software Foundation project - and yet Microsoft has adopted this as a standard for pretty much all their software!All FS X terrain elements are identified by a GUID (in fact, all elements of the simulator properties are identified by GUIDs). These terrain GUIDs can be found in the terrain.cfg file, a very, very long file.I have put together a more condensed, hopefully more easy-to-read list of terrain GUIDs that can be found in the Avsim library, along with the Modified Terrain.Cfg that Richard Ludowise and I put together. You can find that here:http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID...scen&DLID=932895. In SBuilder for FS X, you can display the QMID grid. By displaying the quad 11 grid, you will more easily be able to see the necessary extent of your Hydro Polygon - it must extend at least that far.To display a QMID grid in SBuilder, go the the View menu.By the way, you should not draw a Hydro Polygon over land, because nothing will display over it. Make sure that your Hydro Polygon represents the real extent of the water, and nothing else.SBuilder for FS 9 was able to import the default terrain files, so we could see exactly what we were removing and replacing.Unfortunately, the FS developers have not revealed the format of the FS X terrain files, so we are not presently able to look inside them. So, SBuilder will not show the default coast.You will have to keep an eye on the display in TMFViewer while you make corrections in SBuilder.6. Hydro Lines (beaches) have a wave effect attached. The effect is only on 1 side of the beach texture, so you must draw this line in the correct direction in order to get the wave effect to display on the right side.Hydro Lines should be drawn clockwise around the Hydro Polygon, that is to say, the Hydro Line must keep the water on the right-hand side.Best regards.Luis

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Hello Luis,back from a visit in a spanisch restaurant and some food-shopping I was hoping to find help from you. And what can I tell you - I found much more. Again an excelent description which really helps a lot.You are really "sehr nett"!!!! I am very happy to have someone like you. I have seen your answers in other groups - that is really a bunch of support you spent for us all.Thanks again.Now I will do some work on a new clockwise coastline and you can hopefully spent some more time to get your projects ready.All the best for you.Bodo

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