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wsieffert

Nagging touch-and-go problems

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I'm working on some military touch-and-go flights and I'm hitting the wall with a couple of problems. The aircraft are all the same WWII-vintage prop fighters, and I'm trying to get them to go in groups of 3 or 4, taxi out, fly a couple of circuits and land again. I can make them all start up within a couple of minutes of one another, and three will even take off and get into the pattern. However, because of the short time it takes to make one circuit at their assigned altitude of 1500', by the time the fourth plane is at the hold-short point and ready to take off, the others are coming around for their touch-and-goes already. After a while of waiting, the fourth plane eventually gives up and disappears. It appears AI planes on a VFR flight won't even attempt to take off if another plane is on its base leg. So that's problem number one; how can I get them to fly a wider pattern or take longer to go around? If there was a way to alleviate this clumping, I think it might solve the disappearance problem.The second issue I'm having may just be a MS weirdness, I'm not sure. I always tune in to the comms and listen as the AI planes announce their position and intentions, however sometimes one or more of them will stop announcing after a while. When this happens, it's a consistant precursor to them just flying touch and goes ad nauseum, and never doing a full stop landing. Eventually I grow tired of watching them do patterns and just give up. It seems as though on almost every flight, at least one of the planes does this, and I haven't got a clue why. Does anyone with some good AI traffic experience have any ideas that might break this logjam? I promise to send a virtual crate of the finest beer if you do!thanks,

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You say"It appears AI planes on a VFR flight won't even attempt to take off if another plane is on its base leg. So that's problem number one"That is 100 percent true for TNG's on a VFR FP.You must use FS9's logic when developing FP's even though TTools will allow you to do things that FS9 will not accept.1. Only 3 TNG's allowed by FS9 if they are on a VFR FP. Any aircraft waiting after that will disappear2. No limit to TNG's if they are on a IFR FP.3. Pattern altitude and L/R base legs set by AFCAD (runway properties) for VFR TNG FP's4. The compiled altitude in the FP is used if the TNG is IFR and not the pattern altitude in AFCAD. The R/L pattern turn is disregarded because ATC controls the pattern turn.You ask"how can I get them to fly a wider pattern or take longer to go around?"Set them to IFR and let ATC control their vectors.In your 2nd paragraph the problem once again is they are VFR TNG's and must always initiate the call. If they miss the radio call because of other traffic voices then they get stuck in the FP table and can only be removed with the Traffic Explorer MSN program.Hope this is helpful

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Hi Bill,Have you tried decreasing the speed of your ai aircraft in the aircraft.txt therefore taking it longer to complete the circuit?

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Hi Phil,Thanks, and yes we have ultimately decreased the speed of the AI traffic for a number of reasons, including lengthening the circuit time. It also helped with getting them back off the ground within the bounds of our short (by modern standards) runway. thanks,

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hhmmmmmThe aircraft.txt speed has nothing to do with the speed of any plane inside your AI Visual Zone (108 mile radius). Planes that are in the visual zone fly on the aircraft.cfg cruise settings. If the cruise settings are greater then 250k then FS9 hard codes the speed to 250k until the plane reaches 10,000 ft.The aircraft.txt speed is Distance divided Speed to equal Time. This has little or no effect on TNG's in the AI Visual Zone. Lower the speed in the aircraft.txt prior to compiling is only increasing the total circuit time and the expected arrival time in the circuit. This time value in the Visual Zone is not in control of the aircraft speed. If FS9 had some way for us to manipulate the time value to control speed (in the visual zone between waypoints) we then could space all the arrivals on the approach much better then what ATC tries to do.FS9 expects to see the speed in the aircraft.cfg (actual visual spd) and aircraft.txt (calculated spd for time) to be equal in value. You could slow the plane down in the cfg file but then gear and flaps may stay deployed.

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Hi Jim,"You could slow the plane down in the cfg file but then gear and flaps may stay deployed."I am using someone's GA flights and they use the DC-3 on several AI flights. One thing I noticed was the flaps extended during cruise. I wonder if it is related to your suggestion above.Had a great flight in C172SP Monday night. Flew West of Orlando until it got real dark then did my night currency requirements. Haven't done much night flying and it was interest to see "what you don't see"!! Going to start my instruction training next week!!My wallet will never have a bulge again! :-lolW. Sieffert

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If you want plenty of GA traffic, of your choice, download GA-Traffic to set up your flights. You can check the aircraft you want to use, and uncheck what you do not want. You can set up more TNG flights, by checking the box for Private and Students. You can check for IFR flights or not as you choose. You can use the slider, to control the percentage of flights, either setting it higher or lower than the default. You can set various aircraft according to type, so they either make flights to other cities, etc and make no TNG's or you can check them as Rental's to make them do some TNG's... And many more things than I have time to repeat. GA-Traffic is excellent for its purpose, and will also NOT add any small GA traffic to large commercial fields. It will also make conversions of GA-Traffic if you tell it too for AI flights, this means a lower framerate hit. What Ive done, is load up 89 different GA aircraft and repaints. Converted them (GMAX work best) to AI, then removed originals from my aircraft folder. It does not change the original, but creates a new folder called GA-AI aircraftname.... Thus I have lots of AI for GA fields, and use ProjectAI for commercial, and removed all aircraft that I do not fly from my aircraft folder. Result, better overall framerates, as no flyable 737, 757, 767, 777, Dash, et. al. are flying. There is also a forum here for GA-Traffic. Bob

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Bill:The DC3 appears to be much more sensitive as a AI Plane then most other FS9 default planes. I had to increase the cruise KTAS to 185 so I could get a gearup visual flight. There is an altitude relationship to speed in FS9 that I can't decode and the DC3 fits into this area because the FS9/DC3 surface ceiling is set to FL 287. All my DC3 GA FlightPlans I set to IFR which also helps the coding with gear and flaps up.That night flying will sure help on strengthening the need to stay on the gauges instead of following the inner ear fluid. Gets kind of desolate S and SW of Orlando (at least years ago at night). Add a haze and you might as well be on a IFR FP.You can make that wallet fat in the future when you put your instructor talents to use.

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Hi Jim,I meant "instrument" training not instruction training! I've got to reread what I type.Orlando is now covered like a Christmas tree in lights. The only dark areas around Orlando are the big lakes and the airports.W. Sieffert

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