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Debonair - Excessive Climb rate questions.

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I aplogize as I am at work and have not noticed this at home.If you look on the panel, next to the Checklist and Flightmap buttons, you will see the words RWY INFO. Click on it prior to flight and give it a look-see. You can also pull up info on airports, runway lengths, etc.... :-)This is a great little program included with the release of the Debonair. All the data is already there.You can also use it to set up your climb rate, descent rate, and altitude which is hooked to the stec Auto Pilot.I usually set these up prior to flight as part of my pre-flight planning. This will at least get you closer to real life climb rates.And as stated in other posts as well. If you experience a constant beep and the wing leveler will not disengage, recycle the master switch located on the left lower side of the panel. That will disengage and end the beep. This little annoyance is so you can have dual functionality of the stec auto pilot in pilot view and co-pilot view.Hope this helps,Joe :-wavehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Joe,I presume this refers to autopilot operation nnnnnot had flying?Hand flying this Bird gives rates of 4000 fpm plus which with even the Avgas available to geof is a little optimistic :-)Apart from that she is a delight and thanks to you all for your efforts.Peter

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Hi Peter,It does refer to the Altitude function of the AP.I am thinking of going home early to check this out and play around with it. I am mad at myself for not seeing it. It's driving me nuts right now... :-lol :-lolWhen I used POH setups, It seemed pretty close to me, so I am stumped as I sit here. I don't recall seeing that high of a climb rate. All I did for 2 days was hand fly and evaluate the systems, functionality and performance realism, and I honestly did not catch this.I am podding at home more TS scenery, and I don't know that it will be done by the time I get home, plus my son has his final Band concert of the year tonight.(5th Grade 11 years old), he has a solo, (saxophone), so I may not get to this until tomorrow.Thanks,Joe :-)PS - Peter, I also had a chuckle on the freeware heckling you gave Geof. Thanks :-)http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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>he has a solo, (saxophone)Hey Joe! I played Sax for 8 years. Tenor. Tell your boy Braun thinks he "rocks". ( or classicals...depends on the group I suppose :) )Cheers,bt

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Hi Braun,Thanks, I'll pass it along. I sang all through school and dabbled in Piano, but I was 2nd Seat All State Illinois Jazz Choir... 1983:-lol :-lol :-lol Ranks right up there with my PP-ASEl. :-lolThis is his second year playing Alto Sax, and next year he can join Jazz Band too. He has talked me into Guitar lessons as well, and I told him the reason he is on the A Honor roll at school is because of Music. (Which I believe) He really excels in Math and Science.Right now he wants to be an Engineer, but that depends on His Major League Career in Professional baseball, football, and basketball..etc.... Sport of the day. :-)And get this....He wants to go to Notre Dame.... :-)I guess all that equity in the house will go to good use.. :-)Thanks,Joe :-wavehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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>PS - Peter, I also had a chuckle on the freeware heckling you gave Geof. Thanks

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Joe,I must stress that the 3000 -4000 fpm is with max rpm 2700 and max manifold 30 in mp.From sea level the sustained VSI rate is showing between 3000 to 4000 fpm although the strange thing is that timed on a stop watch she is climbing at 30 feet per sec or 1800 fpm.Manifold pressure is dropping from 30 inches mp to 25 in mp from sea level to 5000 feet?Max rpm is redlined at 2600 rpm although she is maxing at 2700rpm.I would imagine Geof cruise climbs her at 25 square??? in which case you wont see those figures.Interesting points are the VSI readings compared to the actual timed climb rate? and the drop off of manifold pressure in the first 5000 feet.Peter

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Hi guys-I mentioned all this in the read me docs. I am not a flight model guy and never will beand don't pretend to be. I did find the fact that I couldn't take off of my home field for 3 years (3da) a problem due to the new fm structure of fs2002. In fs2000 this flight model worked perfectly-in fs2002 it was way underpowered. I was left with the choice of flying with a model much like the Carendo Bonan za which I likewise find very underpowered and could also not takeoff from my home field ,or jacking it up at the expense of that 4000 minute thing which I also do not like. Pulling back to 25 and 25 which I usually do about 400' off the ground does make it more reasonable.I would love to have this fixed-any takers! By the way-if you open the airfile.cfg and set the propellor scalor to 1 (all I did was yank it up .5) you can have the underpowered version that climbs at 1000fpm.By the way-my real bird prop also goes 100 over the red line at full everything at 780 ft. msl-I kinda liked that -:)http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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GeofCan you E mail me as I havent got yours, might be able to helpPeter

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Hi Geof,Hope you had fun flying today. :-)At startup my trim tab is defaulted at -5. I found by reducing to 25/25 after gear retraction, and sliding the elevator trim to -6, she climbs at what you posted.It is listed in the Notes and Quirks section of the manual, and I didn't notice it due to the fact that the trim tab was at -5 on takeoff and with throttle retardation, it was fine. She's a beauty Geof. :-)Thanks,Joe :-wavehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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I am sure I have read in the past that there is a way of setting the trim wheel on startup, to any degree by coding. Anyone know how to do it. I would also like to know how to code the seat adjustment.Anyone remember?Nice to see the comments on the bird. I've enjoyed the past few months watching it come together.Geof, I bet you never thought in your wildest dreams it would end up like this. I remember the early stages and what a differnce in the final product.It's the only bird I have flown for months now.Thanks Geof and Jameshttp://members.rogers.com/jkanold/jimlogo.gifhttp://members.rogers.com/eelvish/flyurl.gif

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Jim When you say "seat adjustment" are you referring to the default seat hight? If so you can find the answer here http://www.fsgateway.com/tips.asp under altering views. This can be done individually for each aircraft. David

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HelloJust a quick note to say thanks very much to GeoffA and the other guys that have produced a great looking plane. It's excellent to be able to get this as freeware as it clearly has had hours and hours of hard work put into it.I haven't read the manual yet so quite a bit to figure out for me still. I might be back with some questions later :)One little minor point I noticed, it might be some FS2002 oddity or just an oversight ? If you look closely at the left wheel it rotates backwards when taxiing forwards.Or maybe you did it deliberately to check we were all paying attention :-hahAnyways thanks again for all the hard work Regards Geoff

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>>One little minor point I noticed, it might be some FS2002 >oddity or just an oversight ? If you look closely at the >left wheel it rotates backwards when taxiing forwards. >Or maybe you did it deliberately to check we were all paying >attention :-hah Yes....deliberatly...that might pass :-smile12 Thanks for pointing it out to me. I'm working on a few things on the model at the mo and I'll put it on my list of things to do :-)Thankshttp://homepages.paradise.net.nz/edenw/fs_banner_je4.jpg Think highly of yourself, for the world takes you at your estimate -Anon

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>Engineer.....I is one of 'dem. ;-) me-can-knuckle, that is. We should start the Avsim Engineering Forum, Civil/Traffic here>To bad he want to go to Notre Dame.....:-lol You've got that right, lol>

Well, um, I have some allegence to the Wolverines since I grew up near Detroit, but I'd have to say....Go Yellowjackets (Georgia Tech)MikeKOCF

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>If you experience a >constant beep and the wing leveler will not disengage, >recycle the master switch located on the left lower side of >the panel. That will disengage and end the beep. An easier way to disengage the leveller (after the AP switch is turned off) seems to be to just hit the "Z" (FS's own AP hot-key)By the way Geoff... the "hint" under the mouse when it is over the "RWY INFO" button, is "Attitude indicator". Thought youmight finally appreciate something real simple to fix :-)Art.

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Actually-the tooltips are practically impossible to fix. That part is hard coded into the gauge itself. That is why three or four of the gauges will show something else when you run your mouse over them-something that I think is going to have to be lived with. :-grrhttp://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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>constant beep and the wing leveler will not disengageThe first time I encountered this "bug" with Geof's (now my ;-)) Deb, I was stunned. Playing for real I decided to act along and worked out what one might do when this would really happen in the air with the AP in a locked-up situation... FS spoiled us over the years by always allowing us to switch the AP off. ;-)I just let it fly merrily along for a while. I then switched back to heading control of the aircraft with the autopilot in charge. I flew a wide circle as I aimed for the NDB at the runway approach using the heading bug control. This allowed me to approach the NDB calmly in a wide arc and I could line-up for the runway. The AP allowed me control of the descend manually and I came in straight, landing safely with a nice flare, however, the AP still in control of the banking. I kept the nose wheel up as long as possible to prevent it from veering until the speed was low enough for a short full stop with wheel brakes. Remember AP off is part of the finals check list! Nice! If left on during landing and with heading control or whatever, the aircraft may really let you run off wildly or even tip over after touch down! I believe if this can be done simulated, your bird will not let you down, Geof, if ever the AP quit in this manner in the circuit! Pity still that FS ATC could not play along with this emergency...Pieter

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Lol-first time it happened to me I also treated it as an emergency-but I shut all the power off as I probably would do. When I restored the power it worked-hence my fix to the bug for now -flip the masters on and off.I got an email from another pilot who also treated it as a "situation"-I guess people who fly for real are used to having these things happen in real flight and just go into react mode.It would be nice if fs could have more of these type of mystifying and strange events.Of course-it is my hope to fix this one!Geofhttp://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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I have updated a couple of the threads dealing with the AP disengage.Pressing "Z" (FS's normal autopilot toggle) after switching off the deb AP, will kill the wing-leveller and trim-hold.That may give you a hint as to what is wrong... FS still thinks the AP is on, so some piece of global FS information is not being updated by the gauge's code.I have been playing with the AP quite a bit...Feel free to contradict me, because I do not know the instrument, and am not a pilot, but my perception of its real-world operation is:1. Engaging "standby", "nav-hold", or "heading-hold", alsoengages wing leveller, and engages VS as per the time of set.2. Engaging heading hold, would fix the heading to the a/cheading AS OF TIME OF ENGAGE...3. The left-right knob only applies to heading-hold, and changesthe current heading in the clicked direction. I assume that the 3 clicks right and left of centre are probably 10,20,and 30-degree bank turns???Now, the deb's a/p operation in FS:1. Engaging heading does not hold the current heading, but turns a/c to the HSI's heading bug. I do not know what FS global information a Gauge programmerhas at his disposal,but I would have assumed that the current heading and the heading-bugposition would be available to him. Thus, wouldn't it be possibleto have the gauge code move the heading bug to the current a/cheading and THEN engage, in order to simulate the real ap? 2. The left-right heading knob works only if the wing leveller is disabled by setting:use_no_default_bank=1in the Autopilot section of aircraft.cfg.This is probably an FS limitation for your ap "guage", but evenwhen the knob IS working, it seems to lose track of its position.After playing with it for a while, "neutral" will shift to one or two clicks to the right, and you can only make left turns with it.Also, when the knob is in certainclick-postions, the horn sounds.Again, I am not sure of what the guage-writer has available, but would it not be possible to simply have the left-right knob movethe HSI's bug-setting knob, which would, in turn, adjust the heading?? I have also looked at the aileron trim, and there seems to besomething inherently wrong with its interaction with the mainaircraft model... Perhaps there is some setting required in aircraft.cfg. I substituted the Lear and the Kingair aileron trim,and none of the three have any effect on the deb's roll.PS... The aircraft is very, very flyable as it, and I provide myexperiences above in case it triggers some hints for when (or if)you and your team decide to persue some these "issues"...Thanks again. Art.

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Some of what you say of the autopilot is correct-some is not. I would suggest-here is the real manual if pdf form:http://www.s-tec.com/pdf/40-50.PDFIt would be easiest to take a look at this-for instance 2) is incorrect-the heading mode causes the autopilot to follow the heading bug on the hsi-not your current aircraft headingThe wing leveller is also on as soon as you turn the autopilot on.In any case-reading the manual is the best course here-it is an stec 50 (they have the 40 bundled also).However-here is how I use it 99.9% if the time. You run the self test on the ground. Then on takeoff-say atc starts talking to you and you have to copy some clearances etc. -hit 'on". At this point the wing leveler is on and the plane will keep its present setup e.g a climb etc. Say at this point atc says" turn to 180 degress" at this point push the "heading" button and turn the heading bug on the hsi to 180-the autopilot will now turn to 180 in a standard rate turn and continue your setup. When you reach your altitude-level out-trim, and hit "altitude". The plane will now fly at that alitude, and the heading the heading bug is set to. If atc requests more changes you now turn the heading bug (heading mode still engaged) to the new heading-the autopilot will fly it. The turn knob in the center will do a coordinated turn left or right (if heading mode isn't selected) but I have to confess I have never used it-there really isn't any reason. Even when doing holds with the autopilot-I basically level off-hit alt, then use the heading bug to set the headings.We are in the process of redoing lots of things-so the aeleron trim may be improved /fixed. I used the default one included with fs but didn't really bother to check it-again it isn't a hugely used item anyway-but if not working I would like to fix it.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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Thanks... That clarifies the operation greatly.That means that the only "real" issues are the disengage(easily worked-around with the "Z" key) and the co-ordinated turn knob, which you don't use much anyway.By the way... have you seen this post/thread re the nav-gps gauge?http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID8/4606.html#6I haven't seen anything like that...I do have a tiny issue at startup when the deb is the a/cin the default flight, but I am still looking at it beforeI post about it. And anyway, it starts up and runs okayin spite. Art.

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