Sign in to follow this  
Guest R_Driscoll

STOL Aircraft

Recommended Posts

I'm just publicising here a bit of a problem I'm having with Jon's Clare Valley scenery. I have sent a complaint to him directly, but thought in the interests of air safety I should warn others about this basic design problem. There I was, having flown all the way from SEATAC (enduring endless abuse from controllers stuck in rule books), enjoying the pleasant scenery of mountains whizzing past the left wing tip and the gorgeous Clare Valley scenery. I did a perfect approach, close to stall, nice flare, touchdown, brakes, reversers. But all to no avail - next moment BOINGGG - I'm in the fence. Coffee all over the passengers (hmm - make a note - don't serve coffee on finals next flight), flight engineer thru the front windscreen, cows running in carazzzy circles, nosewheel in a different timezone to the rest of the plane.Anyway, here 'tis. I think this may affect my decision to fly this plane into SkyHarbour ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Robert,I have been told recently that perhaps I shouldn't be trying to land the Beechjet at Marin County or other small airfields. Bearing this in mind, maybe you should think again about trying to land a 747-400 at Clare Valley :-lolI remember someone saying that they had attempted to land the 747 at Ranger Creek. Needless to say, this is one of the most insane ideas that I have ever had the misfortune to read (particularly if you are using my Ranger Creek package) :-) Those wings might help the local logging company though.............Chris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I THINK what Robert forgot to do on this landing was to open the cockpit windows... this causes enough extra parasitic drag to make this type landing and get stopped at the gate (fence gate) :-)In worse case scenario where you get the approach speed too high on final, having all passengers stick their arms out the windows will bring things under control in short order.Now to get all ground personel to stop laughing from this sight might be a bit harder to accomplish :-lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Flight3ers,The best way of getting the 747 to land on STOL strips, at least in the Flight 3 world, is to keep the undercarriage retracted. Once the jet grinds to a reluctant halt, there will be no visible damage. However, you will find that even if you whack your G key with a sledgehammer, them wheels won't come down and lock in place. Fortunately, the Flight 3 designers mapped us an "emergency extend landing gear button" called Page Down.This means that you can land the 747 almost anywhere (apart from seaplane only strips, which I wouldn't advise too much).On a more serious note, I love the 747s modelled for Flight 3, but the constraint of knowing which runways are usable narrows their horizons somewhat.There have been cases of 747s being emergency landed on short runways (i.e. less than 6,000 ft). Getting the bird airborne again is a multi-million dollar operation - flying in a test pilot, ripping out all the seats, microwaves, bogs, and all the other weight-generating junk airlines have to put in their planes to keep the passengers quiet and on their a**es while incarcerated in these crowded hulks for hours on end, calculating the fuel to the closest 747-friendly strip and not leaving a drop more in the tanks, distributing the fuel weight to aid rotation, insurance (you'd be surprised how many aerial misdemeanors void aviation insurance policies), and Lord knows what else.As a final note, it would be nice in FU3 if the cows could stay off the runways once they see a bird taxiing towards them. Have a nice one, folks,Lior Bar-On, Israel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lior,Bearing that in mind, it seems that Robert may require the services of an expert team in this case. However, this would very likely involve separating the 747 into a number of smaller pieces.......and then transporting them all to the nearest jumbo friendly airport via TRUCK ! :-lolChris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just landed the 747 at Bonny Doon Village, and I attach the video...The airspeed indicator shows the wrong speed, all the approach was done at about 120 Knots.And, in the video the touchdown seems to be a couple of meters before the runway threshold... Strange, when flying I was sure I had touched down ON the runway... :)And yes, the plane's still in one piece! I din't try to takeoff again though.To get the file, right-click on the link below, then choose "save as" and save it somewhere. Then rename it as ".zip" instead of ".html" and open it, the bbx file is inside...Cristianhttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d...9e1591bfe7.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, maybe they're made of uridium? :)Anyway, the thrust reversers played a major role in braking the aircraft...Cristian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...........on a runway only 2400 feet long ?!!!! How the hell do you stop a 747 in that distance ? Surely that would be impossible in the real world ? Or is it that airline pilots just prefer to look after their planes ? :-)Chris Low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris,I didn't watch the video but I would guess it might depend a bunch on the touchdown weight since he must be touching down at stall speed...How many pounds of fuel did it have aboard ?Also in the real world they watch after passenger comfort levels and unless it's an emergency would never try a landing like this one, so it's hard to compare with real world performance.AND, don't forget it's using the whole 2400 ft for stopping as it's touching down on or before the threshold. :-)::(: The things we get into when the forum is slow :-lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah! The fences work great huh? The 'Real Bush Fence Makers P/L' will be impressed. They put so much tension in those fences, even a 747 bounces off 'em - beauty :-beerchugThis was important 'coz Clare's Valley is full of cattle and, as Lior says, you don't want them gettin' on the 'strip - makes a meal of those nice approaches. I'd love to have gotten a shot from the terminal as she went past - oh yeah, did you notice that you were landing in the wrong direction? Didn't notice the radio calls? Oh, sorry, you did but you didn't understand? Oregon accent - yep, all that rain affects the voice... See any AI planes rebound off your windscreen? No? You were probably too busy laughing at all the cows jumping fences trying to get away :-eekIf only we could get smoke and flames from crashes :-lol I've done a few cartwheels recently playing with the pylon racer stuff (eg hitting pylons). In one case I flipped over and landed unharmed right in the middle of the SEA active runway. My relief was short lived though as Aeroflop then ran me down like a rat on a road... :-( Where's ATC when you NEED it? Oh, they're ignoring me because they've confused the Australian accents and think I'm Rob D!Too much fun :-lolJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, its possible I was landing the wrong way. That would explain the guy in the microlight - had his mouth wide open as he flew past, which I don't think is a good idea in a microlight. There's all sorts of dangerous things flying around up there.I hope the wake turbulence didn't upset him ...But I like Tom's idea - opening the cockpit windows. Might be a touch drafty though (Make note: don't attach approach plate to windscreen any more).Please, don't any of you tell Ansgar I bent his plane! I'm still hoping to load it up in the back of my Mazda and sneak it back to Mike at Grays AAF before he notices. Might take a few trips. Anyway, see you round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, the Porter!I have seen one of these land in a (dirt) driveway, load up with a crook passenger and fly straight out the gate under the power lines! Impressive eh? The best STOL demo I saw was the old Aussie 'Nomad' (short for "NO, I'm not flying that thing, you must be MAD"). Landed on an oval, taxi'id to a stop then took off again without a runup! Mighty impressive for the time - unfortunately, too many people tried doing stuff like this and gave the plane a bad name :-(The other one I can think of here is the old Skyvan which, with a load of fools (parachutists) could still get off the ground halfway down the local 2000ft strip. Of course, that's where it stayed - Skyvans aren't noted for their SPEED. You sometimes felt like running down to the end of runway and giving it a little push, just to make sure :-hah Whenever you saw it flying, you had to brace your head against something to see if it was actually MOVING :-)Jon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These large airliners appear to be able to stop far more quickly than I had imagined in an emergency, although I don't think that I would like to be a passenger when one does :-) Still, when I'm filming at Manchester International airport, it looks (and sounds) more impressive when a 747 takes a considerable amount of time (and runway distance) to stop. The reverse thrust simply emphasises the sheer size and power of the plane...........and that's what filming airliners is all about.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris,I know what you mean. It's nice to pull up quick when you have to but I love the satisfaction of a good approach, threshold touchdown, on with the reversers and just let her roll down the strip, past the terminal. You can almost imagine the terminal windows rattling as you pass by. Then, shut the reversers and apply just enough brakes to comfortably turn onto the taxiway - very satisfying. At this point, I lose my taxi diagram, get lost and are abused by ground control :-)Or get run down by AI...Jon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon,All this talk of thrust reversers has convinced me to finally take the plunge and download Ansgar's 747. I have seen several different liveries (Lufthansa, Qantas and United), but I would REALLY like to have a British Airways Union Flag colour scheme. Is this available, or should I verbally abuse another forum member until this is done ? :-)Chris Low,ENGLAND.PS. Any bets that I'll be able to fly the 747 by "feel" ? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris,Yes there is a BA 747 livery out there, it can be found at[http://www.geocities.com/alive.geo/rvgallery.html]. I downloaded it but I felt it wasn't as accurate as I'd like, perhaps I'll have a go myself. I've already done one repaint, that only took about 8 hours including finding good working images. All you need is Paint Shop Pro (or similar) and resviewer and you can quite easily produce your own.For those who haven't found it yet [http://www.airliners.net] is a fantastic image archive. Plenty of inspiration to be found in there.As for flying this beast by feel, it's possible. You just have to remember that it doesn't roll that fast.Cheers,Rich.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rich,Yes, Ansgar had already directed me to this livery, but it is the NEW Union Flag scheme that I am interested in.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My mistake.Since I don't know of any of those, I might have to have a go at one myself. Don't let me stop you though, BA has plenty of tailfins to go around :-)Rich.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris, by all means you have to download Ansgar's B747 and give it a go. The Sim was designed for small planes - we all know that. But it ain't too bad for the big'uns either - long distance flights over outerterrain are great at high altitudes - sky shading in the sim is excellent, you can extend clouds using the weather generator program (Markus Brunner again at http://www.geocities.com/in_04/ - he did a lot of outer terrain development). And the view on takeoff and climbout around Seattle is out of this world. And the feel of the plane is indescribable - you feel the momentum and the massive size of the plane. The cockpit is 7th heaven - a superb autopilot setup which is radically different to any other plane but once learnt, is the only way, etc etc. It surely is one of the triumphs of the FU3 addons.But (this is just a suggestion of course) don't try and land it onshort runways. Unless you're rich.Gotta go - I'm flying the SR71 into Ranger's Ck and I need to concentrate ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Robert,Be careful flying the SR-71 around Ranger Creek. If you crash it, then Bigfoot might get hold of the technology...........and we really don't want that :-lolChris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bogdan,You need to understand here that my rendition of "flying" the 747 won't involve much from a REAL 747 manual :-lol Once again, I'm going to attempt to fly the thing by "feel" alone.That scares you all, doesn't it :-)Chris Low,ENGLAND.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this