Sign in to follow this  
Guest jonpoint

GeeBee R2 V1.0 release

Recommended Posts

Hi to all FU3 and GeeBee fiends!The day has finally arrived for the GeeBee to make it's true debut. Today I am uploading Version 1.0, ready to fly. Those of you familiar with either the original, unfinished model or my 'pre-beta' are in for a surprise! This one flies better, looks great, sounds pretty convincing and is a lot of fun to use.It includes a lot of features only found on post-LGS aircraft like wing wires, transparent canopy, 3D engine and a unique callsign. She's a new aircraft, Jim! I won't ramble on too much here - just go fly it and see for yourself :-)http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e502b3253742459.jpghttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e502b9054e3a5b0.jpghttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e502bc155891f3a.jpghttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e502bee563a42fa.jpghttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e502c1a570f16b3.jpgJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I'll get it ASAP and try it out! Thanks for this exciting aircraft and thanks to Steve for the cockpit / panel.best regards,Hans Petter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations to Jon Point, Master Craftsman !And thank you very much.Jim Lynch - Tucson, Arizona

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm downloading it now! Thanks Jon! :)CristianP.S. Glidernut, where did you take that screenshot?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About 40 feet awy from the GeeBee, "wat a daft questyon!"."O" I see wat you meen, sory.In the bluw sercal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks great but find this flight model to be a lot more challenging than the previous one. First of all I set a "head tilt to able to see what I was doing:head_tilt 352last_command head_tilt -5This makes the horizon look right in level flight. Otherwise I'd have to use F1 for landings.Then on to the test flights. I haven't been able to take off without scraping the left wing yet. Well, that's nothing new but now the same happens as I land. I come over the threshold at 100 mph, settle, bump and take off again, touch and bump and so on. It seems that the engine keeps pulling even on idle and the aircraft won't slow down. I was cruising and bumping along the entire Coupeville Nolf runway maintaining 60 mph on idle. The readme says we need to use the brakes but I can't start braking before I'm on the ground and staying there :-) Somehow I've managed to stop though, scraping the left wing and running in circles for a while. The strange thing is that FU3 hasn't logged these landings as crashes. The pilot log counter does run so it does register the landings.Flaps: I seem to get three notches of flaps all at once. How many are there? When I tap "F" I hear three consecutive flap movements and the transition is anything but smooth. From 100 mph "clean" the plane noses up to a stall and then comes down again to stabilize at 80 - 100 mph. Now, this seems like deploying flaps at an excessive speed but if the clean stall speed is 100 mph I can't really go any slower. Could it be that the flap notch(es) is (are) too high?Anyway, I can land it "clean" (which is advised anyway) but I'm puzzled why it doesn't settle as I touch down at 95-100 mph and keep some back pressure. It should slow down in no time, just as the Mustang rather than chugging along.Sorry if this sounds negative but I'm really trying to be constructive here. If I'm doing it all wrong I'm sure GeeBee Jim will put me straight. I definitely don't want an "easy" model -- I want a GeeBee that's challenging for all the right reasons.Once airborne the aircraft flies nicely and I can easily kill the torque by kicking right rudder.The visual model is stunning and I like the addition of wires to the views. You've shaved the nose of the aircraft a bit in panel view (F2, F3) and with the above mentioned head tilt setting this looks realistic. best regards,Hans Petter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Jon,my compliments and congratulations to that perfect 3D-model and very good flight compromises! The version 1.0 of your GeeBee is much better to fly now then the last beta I received and tested. The engine torque effect is noticable, but now it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She a great aircraft! Thanks for the hard work. The on;y thing I noticed is the 5-way starter switch only works the turn the engine on, not off and not all 5 positions work. A small thing really, Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just tested the GeeBee. I could do a takeoff without scraping the wings (GENTLY applying power), buzzed around a bit, and landed, again without scraping the wings. I kept it pretty slow on final (less than 90 kts, no flaps). I don't know how realistic it is, but hey, I like this aircraft! :)Glidernut: I didn't recognize the place because the last time I went there, there were no trees... Trees grow fast there it seems! ;-)Cristian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thankyou, Steve, especially for the cockpit!I noticed the same thing after yet another hair-raisng (but sucessful) landing - I couldn't switch it off (with the switch). I will play with the flight model for this issue. It currently doesn't use the 5-way switch. It would have worked OK on the P51 based-model but there simply isn't an entry for it in the GeeBee's model. My sincere apologies - I should have worried more about it but was too concerned with last-minute changes to the flight characteristics. Every change to the model requires testing and I just didn't get that far.There are other changes to be made in the flight model but I'll hold off for a while and just let people fly it and keep taking notes of their comments :-)The 'GeeBee Jim' livery is done now and the models for the racing package are ~80% done (3x GeeBees, 2x P51s done). The 'Arlington Airshow' package is coming slowly 'coz I've been busy with the plane itself ;)Jon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hans Petter: Maybe I can help. Whoops, there is a Read Me ? I guess that I should get around to reading that. Landing procedure: First take it to a big long, and wide runway, Like McChord. Next forget about the brakes and flaps, you can play with them later.1st - make a effort to come in over the hedge at about 100 kts, and maybe 10 - 20 feet high. The flaps should be up and out of the way. At the 95 to 100 kts that you mentioned, don't try to touch down, because it still wants to fly, and is not ready to land. For practice, use the F-8 view, and press the "Z" key for full zoom. Adjust the F-8 view for Max tail view, using top hat or other control. The key here is to observe the runway, wheels, and wings simultaneaously. It's a very Dynamic view. Every effort must be made to keep the wings absolutely level ! As your airspeed drops below 90 kts, start easing back the stick, now a little faster at 85 kts, watch them wings, keep 'em level. If you have gauged your height accurately, you will acheive a three point touchdown at between 80 an 78 kts. After you get your timing down, you can try landing using cockpit views. I only use flaps if I screw up and get too fast on my base leg or final. Use them only for braking the aircraft during the approach, and get them back up prior to touching down. A planned longer and gentler approach, eliminates the need for them. Let us know how you do ?> Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, there's a readme. Among others it says:7. Landing safely is hard, so don't be put off by a few crashes at first! Stall is 100MPH (~90 kts) which is a fairly high speed to put down a 1300lb aircraft. 8. Approach at 115-120mph with flaps down. Do not use flaps 'to ground' but cut power and retract them as you cross the 'fence' and she'll land OK. Try to hold level until she just falls onto the strip. 9. Watch the rudder on touchdown - try to be straight on the tires. She's short, light and, due to the engine being almost half the plane's weight, rather top-heavy on the ground.10.If you scrape the wingtips and bounce around the airfield, you're probably not straight, too fast or leaving the flaps down! My frustration is, I seem to comply with / adhere to all of the above :'( Jim wrote: For practice, use the F-8 view, and press the "Z" key for full zoom. Adjust the F-8 view for Max tail view, using top hat or other control. The key here is to observe the runway, wheels, and wings simultaneaously. It's a very Dynamic view.I haven't tried this yet. I'll go F8 and "Z" to zoom on my next attempt.My guess is that somehow I have a runaway throttle / one that won't go full idle. As I land the latest version of the GeeBee it maintains 60 mph after touch-down and keeps going until I overun (any) runway. I put my toe brakes "to the metal" as soon as all of the wheels are down but I seem to be fighting the thrust of the engine that's supposed to be idling. Also, when I trim it up to the stall limit (80 - 85 mph) in flight and cut the throttle it sinks at a rate of 2 - 5 units (hundreds of feet per minute?) only. A plane trimmed up to the stall limit should sink as a rock with no power. Well, this one doesn't--the stall horn is on and the throttle as far back as it goes but the aircraft hardly sinks. BTW, my default aircraft setting is 75% fuel. I'll try 100% fuel on my next flight to add more weight. Anyway, I'm going to get this right. I'm just puzzled that we seem to be flying different flight models. I found the previous GeeBee beta to be quite manageable but the latest one doesn't quite fly on my PC yet--with you guys it's the other way around. best regards,Hans Petter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon you've given us a monster!My congratulations on a fine piece of work. It's all the little details that make this aircraft a joy to look at and fly. The daylight through the cowling is a nice touch, I've not seen that done before, and modelling the cylinders individually really gives a sense of just how big that engine is.I'm happy to say that my first takeoff was almost perfect, I held back to 75% throttle to avoid the worst of the torque and she only needed a small amount of rudder to hold straight. Open the throttle wide as soon as she's clear of the runway and she climbed beautifully. Landing wasn't quite so straightforward though, I'm ashamed to say that on my first attempt to land at Shoreham, the wheels finally touched tarmac halfway down the runway, bounced high, and the next time she came down was in the English Channel. At least she's clean :-) I'll try not to bend it too much in the future, but I'm making no promises.Incidentally, this sort of aircraft really shows up your flying techniques, I didn't realise just how much I rely on the ADI until I didn't have one. I think my rudder skills need some work too.Thanks again for this wonderful aircraft.Rich.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes Hans, you must be idling very fast. Just to prove it to myself, I just flew it at a short strip, Half Moon Bay. I came in over the edge higher and faster then I would have liked, maybe 30 feet high, and 105kts, no flaps. ( Yes, Im afraid that I was hotdogging, I am ashamed to say ) Well, I got it down just fine, no wing dragging, using my F-8 tailview technique, and just let it roll out, no brakes. It came to a complete stop, by itself, about 50 yards from the end of the runway, no brakes were ever applied.I think that success comes from getting it down real close to the runway prior to stall, and then the graceful application of up-elevator, between 90 and 80 knots for flare. If you touch it down much before 80 kts, you are going to bounce it. > Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have dabbled into flight dynamics editing and with the help of Jon and Ansgar I've managed to implement Ansgar's recommendation://windTorqueCoeffloat 0.4, //frictionConstCoeffloat 150.0, However, the main reason for my problems is rather embarrassing. I assumed that the GeeBee had a fixed propeller and I failed to advance the prop for take-off and flying. It's amazing it took off and flew at all! My landing problems were due to this low prop pitch since a prop that "bites smaller slices of air" is more efficient on idle. The aircraft will taxi faster but normally it won't have enough "bite" to take off and climb. Well, the GeeBee does. With the prop fully advanced I get the expected sink rate for landing and even have to throttle up a bit to dampen the sink rate on short final. After several hours of flying the GeeBee more or less properly my landings are a lot better than my take-offs. The take-off is blemished by the torque and I'm sure that a lot of you have turned it off. Well, I won't since that's what my rudder pedals are all about. However, right before take-off I experience a magnitude of torque that can't be "killed" by right rudder only. I have to bank into it as well, leaving the runway with a swoop that's anything but graceful. I think we ought to have a stronger rudder input since I'm basically "running out of rudder" with this aircraft. Flying at 150 - 200 mph I use most of my available right rudder to go straight and it's tempting to bank right a bit to aid the rudder. All in all, the torque seems excessive / the rudder needs more power (size) or more play. It ought to be possible to compensate for any amount of torque by kicking rudder.Landings are easier than take-offs since the torque decreases with less power -- when you basically glide in to a landing the rudder stays neutral. And it sure has to stay neutral -- the tail wheel swings with the rudder input and anything but perfectly straight will cause "exciting" landings.I asked about the number of flaps notches -- does anyone know? I seem to get three notches of flaps in a row. If the GeeBee has one notch of flaps only the deflection seems to be quite "strong". It would seem to be more useful to have less powerful flaps but this obviously depends on what the real GeeBee was equipped with. best regards,Hans Petter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, Hans Petter!I didn't even think about the prop pitch issue - I just push it to the wall, so to speak. The fact that it still flies at all with little pitch is really just a power vs. weight thing - once you're in the air, the lack of pitch becomes very apparent :-(I also had similar experiences a couple of times because I back the pitch off for taxiing and often forget to 'pitch-up' on run-up.The flaps are, well THERE! The 3 noises you here are a result of FU3 repeating the short soundfile - a detail that was not finished. There is only one flap position - down. I am considering changing it to 2 or 3 stages and will consult with a couple of people about this. According to what I have read and what people have told me, the flaps are mostly used for slowing down! Currently set for a max of 30 degrees, I'd like to implement another stage at 10-15 degrees if it would make landings safer for most people.Again, my apologies for these imperfections and I thank you for your invaluable and not inconsiderable input! Yourself, Steve, Jim and Ansgar have been my 'other hands' and what we have achieved is a direct result of many hours of work for all of us. Version 1.1, when released should have an even better flight model, fixed front-quarter views and a better internal cockpit (F4 view). I also intend to implement the multi-position flaps too if I can. A bit more rudder area may also help? I'm happy to compromise physical accuracy if it stops you from pushing the right pedal through the floor! I have increased my 'joystick sensitivity' and reduced the 'deadzone' to help - she's a twitchy set of controls now though ;)Regards,Jon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Hans,Just to your information and to prevent any misunderstanding:the constants: //windTorqueCoef and //frictionConstCoefI posted above are the standard geebee-values! which must be optimized from Jon or you!So up to now I did there no optimizing procedure at this values. But this are the parameters where we/you can modify the behavior of prop speed after decreasing engine power. And also the speed-up of an prop (if engine is OFF) in an stall situation is defined here. The prop speeds up more if you increase the windTorqueCoef and reduce the frictionConstCoef of the prop.As new physics-developer you can experiment a bit with that now. And I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, This is by far a AWESOME plane. I love the sounds!! Amazing, just one question, how do you enter/change your squawk??Thanks,Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to add my congratulations Jon! She's a beast! I finally downloaded and installed the latest version - I love the detail on it. I tried to taxi around Gatwick to get the feel of it, but since I'm a bit short I couldn't see over the cowling, so I was trying to wobble from side to side to see where I was going, but gave up and used F8. Takeoff - used 70% throttle, a touch of rudder, but she still kicked hard on takeoff and there's a new groove on 28 Left where the right wing was "strength-tested". So I just yanked back on the stick and got out of there - yeehaaa - another successful takeoff and my first in this bucking bronco. Did a few passes at 200 ft, upside down, loops, a sort of abortioned hammerhead - but its easy to recover and turns beautifully. Possible its a bit lively for checking scenery development. But I think when the pylons are up, I might be parking my tefloned Trainer and hunting blood with this little critter.And I love transparent windows - I would die for transparent windows - well done! The pilot is a bit ugly though - who is he modelled on? HEY - you didn't steal my photo did you?And I landed it. ON THE RUNWAY! First TIME !!!!!!!!! It would have made a kangaroo airsick to watch but it stayed straight. Congrats Jon - she's beautiful.Rob D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to all for your kind comments and helpful advice. I knew that this one would be very different from the 'easy Sunday morning' type of aircraft but I'm glad that you've all persevered enough to learn it and enjoy it :-) One thing to note. I hear a lot of rudder kicking going on but don't forget, torque causes ROLL, not left/right turns. You do have to bank it with the ailerons to counteract the roll. Use the rudder to hold it straight whilst you're banking it. Flying with 'coordinate rudder' switched on is not the go either (when you counteract the roll she turns...). You CAN fly it with no pedals if you're good with the keyboard - I did a lot of testing this way - if I can takeoff and land using the keyboard rudder comands, it should be easier with pedals.Rob,I've tried using the 'Chris Low method' of flying around slow with flaps down and very little power but she does get a bit piggish - probably NOT that good for explorations though I've had no problems finding somewhere to land most times, including the 'new' strip at Forest Falls ;)As to the 'ugly' pilot, it's hard to find a 'straight' photo when you need one! I must admit I was feeling pretty ugly when the shot was taken but then I had just beaten everyone else to the top of the Mt Allyn hillclimb in record time! http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5b019237b25888.jpgI would rather have cleaned-up before the shot but I was so exhausted I just leant on the bike and said 'hurry up before I fall over' before drinking 2 litres of water and collapsing :-) '77V' (the yellow GeeBee) has a shot of Jim in it if you'd prefer 'handsome'. It'll be uploaded this week.I'm glad you landed OK - it's definitely the hardest part of flying it! Don't worry about those kangaroos anyway - there's a couple hanging around AWO at the races to add to the spectacle ;)Jon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well no wonder you enjoyed making bikes for Fu3! I thought the pilot might have been a self protrait when I said .. (oh bother, now I'm in trouble, why can't you have been someone from Russia or Georgia or something). Um, very handsome pilot.Thanks again for the adrenaline rush. But you still haven't invented a good internet nickname for me.And are you ready for UK-South now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this