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Attention, All Aircraft...There is a rogue Radar

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:-rotor...Seattle Approach, Niner-Lima-Golf-Heavy is with you at Seven-Thousand...:-rotorNiner-Lima-Golf-Heavy, Radar Contact, Fly heading One-Six-Three, Maintain One-Thousand...This will be vectors ILS Runway One-Zero Right.:-rotor...Seattle Approach, Niner-Lima_Golf-Heavy, Maintain One-Thousand...:-eek...Uh...Seattle Approach?...Request Vectors ILS, BOI...Say again?...:-hmmmNiner-Lima-Golf-Heavy, Fly Heading one-six-three, Maintain One-Thousand. .............................................................Niner-Lima-Golf-Heavy, Monitor Altitude...Maintain One-Thousand. .............................................................Niner-Lima-Golf-Heavy, Do you COPY???:-fume...Seattle Approach, Niner-Lima-Golf-Heavy, Cancel IFR, Request Vectors Direct, Seattle Approach Tower...Am inbound for landing...Niner-Lima-Golf-Heavy is going to feed you and your ATC License to my Number-One Engine!...:-badteeth:-vuur...V-FAA meeting requested...Subject: Properly trained controller needed for immediate placement! Must be able to recognize and be familiar with static terrain elevation...Must also not be under the influence of Prozac while on duty.Fly First...Play Later...--Noel

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Noel,Which airport were you approaching ? I can't recall any large airports around Seattle that have a runway 10R.Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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>Noel, >>Which airport were you approaching ? I can't recall any >large airports around Seattle that have a runway 10R. >>Chris Low, >ENGLAND. Fly First...Play Later...--NoelHi, Chris!That would be Boise Air Terminal (BOI) in the outer terrain. BOI,PDX,PHX,GCN etc. have the same problem. I would upload BOI which I designed to as near exact protocol as FLED and the engtrans.dll would allow, but I had to modify Beacons, radio freqs., Models, lines, lights, and so on for numerous airports that shipped with FUIII and also those that came in other packages from various developers here. The install would probably mess up everybody's FUIII. I made the mods without packages and moved runways, models, and so on that shipped with FUIII. On the other hand, if it would be possible to fix this particular issue, I could upload my complete set of modifications as a series of patches to the sim...kind of a FUIII Patch 3.xxxxx.Any suggestions?Regards, Noel, Idaho--USABTW. You are about 7 hours ahead of me...MARK 0322 HRS

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I think the Grand Canyon is one of the most spectacular parts of FU3, and I was very glad people put so much effort into the little airports around it. Now that the community has the skills to generate terrain tga's, maybe its possible to texture it as agtim/cristian did UK-South? Imagine the GB's zipping along there (But I wouldn't be driving the GB - too fast for me. I would be in my good old trainer enjoying every rock and bump along the way!, or maybe the Learjet so I could get back in time for dinner ...)Sorry a bit off topic but someone did mention outer terrain ...RobD.

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Noel,Idaho huh. I lived in and around Boise for about 2 1/2 years... nice town... moved here to Colorado 18 years ago. Greetings.

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Hi, Robert & Tom!:-beerchug This has been a fantastic forum over the years, I must say! Just amazing how interest in a fine piece of software can be kept up by those who own it. As to the outer terrain issue, Robert, I have been trying to figure out how to extend the high res. scenery (Satellite imagery accurrate to within the 4m or less/pixel) across the continental US. What an add-on that would be. Sadly, the cost of acquiring the data is extremely cost prohibitive. I can only imagine the initial venture capital LGS had to come by to get started for the SanFran/Seattle regions. I am intrigued by the notion that some day it might be possible to fly established trade routes from major airports like SFO to Kennedy International--via true-to-life stop-overs, and then eventually across the Pond to Lon/Heath and so on. As to the Boise, ID issue, Tom, I, too, tried to live in Boise for a number of years following my exodus from the USAF--MHAFB, ID in '90. The town became a bit too large--too fast for my tastes and I have since migrated East. Idaho's attraction to me is the vast areas of unpopulated wilderness that, given no more interference from the likes of Billary Clinton's National Canyonlands and so on, remain accessible to those of us who truly appreciate what the region has to offer in the way of scenery and wildlife. Outdoor activities such as camping, fishing and hunting are still very enjoyable if one is lucky enough to find those out-of-the-way non-KOA campgrounds in the wilderness areas of Idaho without the noise of ATV's and such. A prime example: in visiting one of the camp sites in the Trinity Lakes area, a small herd of Mule does and a couple fawns came right through our campsite and did not even flinch at our presence. It has been a couple years since we ventured that way, so I cannot accurately attest to whether or not that area remained unfettered. :'(Anyhow, I am sad to report that the economy here in Idaho is extremely poor these days. I am hanging on by less than a thread to being able to remain in Idaho. Footnote: I hope that somebody may be able to point me in the right direction as to resolving some of these little issues concerning FBO_Name, ATC, and the OT.:-walksmile Regards, ...Fly First...Play Later...--Noel

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Hello Noel,It has been ages since I last wrote anything in this forum, but I have been reading it from time to time. I am quite busy with other things, and there has been very little time for FU. But this description of problem sounds familiar, and looks like the same thing that happened to me.I was flying from outer terrain to Sea-Tac with Beechjet, and was sure the ATC gave me 1000 ft. Naturally the ground got closer, and ATC kept nagging about the altitude. Finally I did what she wanted and ended the flight with "negative altitude", inside the ground.I tried the flight few times more, and finally got it: She was actually saying one-zero thousand, referring to ten thousand feet! FU III ATC seems to say one-zero instead of ten, and I only heard the first part of the message.So my problem was actually between my own ears, I didn't really listen but only heard what I thought the ATC said.Regards,Jokke

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Hi, Jokke,:-beerchug Actually I have tried that one...you know, second guessing my own judgment. Anyhow, as soon as I begin an ascent, ATC cuts in and orders me to obey or lose my license. Of course, it makes no sense either way as requirements for entering the traffic pattern on IFR do not differ much from VFR in regards to upper altitude limits. This must be an issue with how engtrans.dll does not associate vctrl.res with the outer terrain. BTW, if someone can figure out how to add "Boise" to the RES files and incorporate it, I'll see what I can do to upload my version of BOI.Regards,Fly First...Play Later...--Noel

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Noel,I noticed that you mentioned something about upgrading lines, lights, models etc. at numerous airports in FU3. That's very interesting, because I used FLED to do the very same thing ! I currently have two large packs in the FU3 file library (Seattle 2002 and SanFran 2002), and these include extensions, upgrades and scenery packages in both high resolution regions. In particular, I upgraded just about every airport in the Seattle region that shipped with FU3. I was completely unhappy with the generally sloppy condition of the taxiway lines, lighting, and AI pathways at so many airports, that I decided to embark on an extensive upgrade program. This was basically done between September 2001 and April 2002, and resulted in me doing very little flying during that time :-)Anyway, if you are interested in having a look at these packs, they are available in the FU3 file library here at AVSIM. Since I released these, I have continued to make tweaks, modifications, and extensions to the packages in these two upgrade packs. I was even considering uploading the revised packs to the library (as Seattle 2003 and SanFran 2003), but it may be better to simply offer them via e-mail to anyone who is interested.Best Wishes,Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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OK Noel, I see that you are well aware of my existing upgrades, so I will not bore you with my advertising any further. ;) Chris Low,ENGLAND.

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Hi Noel,I'm sure somewhere there is a FAQ page for FUIII, with the instructions on how to react when ATC issues you a 'maintain 1000' clearance.(Those with longer memories than me will no doubt point the way)Briefly,if you get this clearance (to descend) you should start a descent of @ 500-800 fpm NOT fly down to 1000ft straight away.Hope this helps:-wavePete

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Hi!Well I can only give you the original addon chapter from the FU2 patch 1-04.This describes by the LG. gurus how to fly vectors ILS and react to ATC.This procedures is,- as I can see not changed for FU3.HOW TO FLY VECTORS ILSThe proper procedure for flying Vectors ILS to any of Flight Unlimited's 8 ILS equipted runways is as follows.Contact the Approach controller by pressing the spacebar, and then choose option #2. You can then chose which of the available airports you wish to land on (NOTE: If wind conditions are such that the ILS runway at an airport is not an active runway, then you will not be able to chose vectors ILS at that airport).You will then be given a heading and an altitude to fly at. The Game will then vector you to an area where you can safely Intercept the localizer. There may be several heading adjustments as you fly towards your destination airport.As you approach the airport, the game will place you in a queue of all landing traffic. If there is no room for you to enter the queue as you first approach the localizer beam the game will place you in a holding pattern. When the radar controller has a spot for you to land it will tell you to "Fly Heading ###, Intercept the Localizer". At that point you should see the ILS indicator in your cockpit become active, and you should follow the last heading given to you until you see the ILS headng indicator move towards the center, then you should turn to the runway heading.The radar controller will always attempt to place you at a safe altitude before you are told to intercept the localizer beam. Being below the beam is perfectly safe. If you see that you are flying above the beam, then you should attempt to get down to a safer altitude.As you fly the localizer beam into the airport, you should attempt to keep your ILS indicators centered. As you get to a point roughly 50-70 seconds away from the runway, approach will hand you off to tower. You should then switch your frequency and contact tower with "ILS Inbound for Landing".If radar determines after it has told you to intercept the localizer beam that you approach is unsafe, it will declare an unsafe approach, and vector you around for another ILS approach. You can be declared unsafe if you are either to high above the localizer beam, or off the beam to either the left or right.Note: You must contact the approach controller who governs the airspace above the individual airport in order to request vectors ILS. Travis AFB is covered by Travis Approach (126.60). Sacramento Executive is covered by Sacramento Approach (125.25). All other ILS airports in our game are covered by Bay Approach (134.50). If you attempt to contact a radar controller other than the one which governs the airspace of the airport you are flying to, you will be given vectors direct to the airport. When you enter the proper airspace you will need to contact that approach contoller, and ask for vectors ILS to the airport you want.Example: You take off from San Francisco and are told to contact Bay Approach on 134.50. You ask for Vectors ILS to Travis. Radar will ask you to squawk, you will then be given a course and an altitude to maintain for Vectors DIRECT to Travis. As you fly towards Travis, Bay Approach will hand you off to Travis Approach on 126.60. You can then ask Travis approach for Vectors ILS to Travis. Approach will then bring you in for an ILS landing at Travis AFB.When Radar controller tells you to maintain 1000. That is an indication that you should begin your decent towards your ILS approach. Don't page down to that level, or jerk you stick in a desperate attempt to get to 1000 quickly. The game recognizes a safe decent as being between 500 and 1000 feet per minute. If you exceed that rate of decent the game may tell you to maintain the nearest altitude. The game may later ask you to begin your decent again, by telling you to maintain 1000.HINTS:The game calculates your flight path based on a speed which it expects your plane to go. This speed is less than standard cruise speed for these planes. If you are having difficult time intercepting the localizer, we recommend that you try slowing down.Hope this can be some help.Lars Peter.

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"Briefly,if you get this clearance (to descend) you should start a descent of @ 500-800 fpm NOT fly down to 1000ft straight away."Hello, Chris & Pete!:-beerchugBefore I had access to the internet and discovered the :-coolEclectic AVSIM File Library,:-cool I set out to correct the hastily placed taxiway lights, lines, and runway markings for a number of the airports that shipped with FUIII. I was pretty well fed up with being guided in on ILS only to land on some kid's tree house or mow down the VASI and runway signs. I also wondered at ILS being available (but not documented by FBO) at some of the OT airports and that the OT airports could not be included in flight planning. Hopefully, someday plotting and flying trans-continental and trans-oceanic flight plans might be possible. As Idaho happens to be my current home of record, I began with modifications to SLC, BOI & PIH airfields and patterned them directly after the actual airport diagrams and used their respective COM/NAV freqs. In addition, SLC Departure (119.60) controls the regional airspace to 300 Mi. When PHX_SLC Fix.zip and PDX, LAS, GCN, LAX were added to the library, I wound up having to modify some of their radio frequencies so as not to lock up engtrans.dll during the load-up. There are literally thousands of airstrips, airfields, major airports, and even military installations in this region that have yet to be added...sadly the program was written with built-in limitations on just how many could be added with all their respective facilities. I believe this will probably find its solution only with some very specialized ;)"Creative Editing." So far, the work around for ATC's loyal devotion to her membership in the Flat Earth Society has worked by descending at a rate of 200-300 FPM...to a point. Major problems exist in the OT where cruise altitude is at or less than 1000' AGL and the Terrain Elevation happens to be above 1000' MSL. A prime example is when entering into the PDX traffic pattern over the mountains to the East, ATC keeps asking for 1000' MSL. The same problem exists for BOI and similar for LAS, etc. I am actually trying to figure out what lines need to be added/changed and where, that will re-train ATC to recognize and correct the error of her ways.Fly First...Play Later...--Noel

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