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Guest andy9164

Missing Models in Fled

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Please help before this is me!!!!:-hang Finally tonight I got my PC stable and reloaded FU3 UK South. Fortunately when I had loaded LCA recently I completely backed up my UK South files so within a few minutes of getting FU3 installed I was up and running in the UK (Except Cardiff). So I decided to do a little work on Lydd having made some new signs that I needed last week.I placed the sign in Fled but having flown out of the airport, decided I needed to adjust the position so went back into Fled. Can anybody tell me where my sign might be? Its not where I see it in the game. I systematically deleted all models one by one just in case it was hiding and its not there........anywhere.Then I thought, Fledviewer, wonderful tool, opened my model file, could see my model, exported into XLS and for some reason it shows I have 2 of them but they are designated as runway and not model in the "type" column. So I edited my airport in Fled and again turned everything off systematically, still cant find the sign and I want to get rid of it. Anybody of you Fled / modelling types got any ideas!!!Please.....:-bang Andy

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Andy,I have encountered this "two models in the same place" problem at times, and it can be very annoying, although I have always been able to see the model(s) when using FLED again. However, one point that you might want to consider is the possibility that your models are invisible from a certain angle. Sometimes I can see models in FLED from one position (let's say directly above), but when I shift the position to show the model slightly to one side (I'm talking about the main "looking straight down" window here), the model disappears !It's worth a try..........Chris Low.

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Thanks Chris, but I cannot see the model at all. With it being a sign I had the same thought that the view from above would be very "thin", so difficult to see. I zoomed in at max and also used the "find" option in the edit menu. It takes me to where my model is, but no model.One thing I also tried, I built a big blue cube, 20m x 20m x 20m, easy to see even from a great height. I gave it the same model name as my sign and placed it in the gen folder, overwriting the original model's bin file. Great, can see it in the game, can't exactly miss it, but in Fled........nothing. I am totally mystified.A couple of questions open to everyone.Is it possible to edit the model file and therefore I can remove the model. If so, how?When using Fledviewer, why does the model show as type "runway" and not "model". Is this relevant?The model is named sn_1_ly is this a problem (my runways and taxiways are named tax_1_ly or run_25_ly etc.)Totally at a loss.Please help.This is Andy9164, Tired, Frustrated and Totally Hacked Off for FU3 News, London

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Andy,I know how you feel. FLED can do that to you at times.Strangely enough, this problem brings to mind something that I noticed during my work on Seattle 2004. There are several trees at Firstair Field (some distance beyond the runway 25 threshold) that are visible in FU3, but NOT visible in FLED. A similar problem exists at Aero Plaza (the trees in this case are a short distance from the runway 07 threshold). I am almost certain that these are default FU3 trees, particularly since the examples at Aero Plaza are not situated on "dark textures" (which is how I decide where trees are planted using FLED).Maybe I should check this out by removing all of my add-on packages. The fact that I haven't done this yet as a mixture of "forgetting to try it" and "can't be bothered" !By the way, have you seen the sailboat at Kapowsin Field ? It is located east of the southern section of the runway. I tried deleting this, but FLED crashed every time. In the end, I decided that it was best to simply leave it where it was !Chris Low.

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Chris, I remember seeing your post on the trees, but I haven't seen the boat, I'll have to have a look.Yes it is very frustrating, you spend hours doing your building / add ons etc, saving regularly and the ....BANG!! problem. I wouldn't care but experience of all Fled users says "save regularly" and you do, but this time because I saved, I have no fall back, the model is placed and saved. Maybe its my fault, I should have made a copy of my Lydd package before I started work on it, but it was only "add a couple of signs" and with my PC going belly up over the weekend I was probably too eager to get on.Oh well, I will give it a couple of days to see if anyone has any suggestions and then I will take the obvious step.....delete the package and start again.Andy

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Andy,When saving in FLED, it is always best to backup EACH saved copy into a temporary directory. I never did this with Windows ME (and I never had any problems), but Windows XP seems to have introduced new aspects of FLED that can prove disastrous. A good example is the "Error, wrong object type" message. This error alone makes multiple backups IMPERATIVE. I found that I had to start ALL of the work on a package again after this message appeared, simply because the package had become corrupted ! This problem has only happened since I upgraded to Windows XP. I never saw it AT ALL when I was using Windows ME.I have said it before, and I will say it again. Windows XP isn't quite as stable as some people would have us believe.............Chris Low.

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Andy wrote: One thing I also tried, I built a big blue cube, 20m x 20m x 20m, easy to see even from a great height. I gave it the same model name as my sign and placed it in the gen folder, overwriting the original model's bin file. Great, can see it in the game, can't exactly miss it, but in Fled........nothing. I am totally mystified.Well, this is not a good idea and I'm surprised that FLED didn't crash. The thing is, if you swap a model for one being differently sized FLED tends to choke on it. You may change textures without deleting the model first though. If you have worked on a model after having placed it in your package this may be the cause of the problems. Always delete any instances of a model before revising it and reintroduce after it's been changed.By the same token, suppose you make a model named house0.bin. Then you download a package by another author which includes a different house0.bin. Whether you overwrite the original file in GEN or not, one of the packages will have problems since each one "expects" its respective version of house0.bin. best regards,Hans Petter

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Dear All,Apologies for my absence... Due to built-in obsolescence, my component attrition for the last 14 days is:One PC power supply, two motherboards, two hard drives, one CD burner and my sanity! The ONLY good part is that I recovered 384 megs of RAM from the motherboard so my home PC now has 512 meg ;) and so does my (new) office PC! Hopefully, the counselling will pay off...Um, back to the problem, did you copy your UK FU3 straight from one HD to another? If so, all the program defaults point to the old one! I was surprised when opening FLED in the UK for the first time to see a whole lot of packages there! I have since moved my original FU3 installation to a different folder as well BUT it did happen.I have also encountered the 'disappearing model' syndrome a few times and, it can happen a few ways. One is obviously placing the model across a megatile join. Don't ask me why but sometimes it works, other times - you know :-bang Being a model creator, I am forever placing and deleting models and sometimes you place a model and nothing happens! Relax! It IS there. Unfortunately you have to restart FLED to see it. Dunno why. I had about 6 fences across my CVA runway at one stage! The trick here is to recognise that you hit 'place' and nothing appeared - yet another sign that FLED needs restarting to avoid a lockup.Then there's the 'LGS super-glue' models that just won't budge. As Chris mentions, there are a few around. The trick to deleting some (doesn't work for all) is to note the exact location (with a bookmark, zoomed right in on it) then close and restart FLED. WITHOUT opening any packages, go to the location and see if it's there. If not, it WAS part of your package and, regardless of why it won't delete, you'll have to trash the package to fix it :-( If it IS there, try moving it first. If, when you deselect it, FLED complains (or crashes), you're stuck.I believe that these 'rogue' models are caused by LGS using a different method of placement and this method is not editable with FLED. Of course, the 'Iworkhere' command gets around being able to edit existing stuff but maybe not completely? Maybe, there's actually an 'overlay' package built-in that we cannot edit?As for the boat, I put a thicket of trees around it!:-waveJon Point

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Jon,The problem of two models of the same type in the exact same location can be overcome, but perhaps it is all in the "luck of the draw". This happened two or three times to me when I was adding your electricity pylon models (maybe we should sort out these rogue model builders also :-lol ). If I tried moving one of them, then FLED crashed (just as you stated above). However, if I deleted one of the models without moving it, I could then delete the other model beneath it, and then save the package without any problems.Maybe I was just lucky here ? I seem to remember that one or two of these errors took longer to sort out than the rest....which resulted in an increased level of adrenalin (and assorted fist shaped depressions appearing in my living room wall) :-)Chris Low.

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Jon,Thanks for your input. You are right, I did copy my FU3 from another drive, added UK South and then deleted the San Fran and Seattle regions from the regions folder. (I don't know if this was right or was there some other files I should take out? Do I need to install the San Fran scenery as well?.....so many questions.)However, my PC got very sick again yesterday so influenced by half a bottle of Penfolds, I went for the, OK reformat the HDD and start again approach. I managed to get Windows loaded and FU3 with UK South and a few update packeges, but a few problems also. My task for tonight is to remove FU3 and do a reinstall for UK South Only so input from anyone as to what I install, (FU3, San Fran, Outer terrain, ??) and what I remove (Regions/Seattle Regions/ San Fran) would be greatly appreciated so I can get a clean install of UK South Only. I can then add the packages.ThanksAndy

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Here's what I did:Originally I had a full installation of FU3 with Seattle, Sanfran and the outer terrain. As I upgraded my PC I made a full copy of this one and put it on a secondary drive. When I was up and running again I placed this copy where I wanted it. All I had to edit was the CD path in the configuration file. So, this is my main FU3 -- it works brilliantly but the registry doesn't know anything about it.Thus, I could install FU3 once more. This time I changed the name to FU3_UK during the installation process and installed Seattle only, without the outer terrain. Then I installed the UK south region and subsequently deleted the Seattle region. Voila, a pure UK sim with no remnants of Seattle, Sanfran or the generic texture of the outer terrain. I think that I did a minimal installation to avoid the huge folder with "CD" megatiles. In any event I deleted the entire CD folder since the UK megatiles aren't part of it anyway.However, if you have uninstalled any instance of FU3 you'll have to do the following:1) Install the full version for your Seattle + Sanfran instance of FU3, including the OT if you want it.2) Copy the entire directory and put a copy of it somewhere else.3) Uninstall FU3 (your copy will stay put)4) Reinstall FU3 -- Seattle only, minimal install and call it FU3_UK5) Install the UK south region into this one and modify this instance of the sim to get rid of anything pertaining to Seattle.best regards,Hans Petter

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Hi Andy,FLED can be bad :-( but it's even better than editing sceneries for FS. My tools can just display the information of model placement. There is 1 file for each megatile of a package so moving a model from one megatile to the next megatile make it to be hidden. It will be deleted from the first file and inserted in the second file.Editing the m0xxyy.mod files is not easy. Actually it is not full explored so they are still unknown fiels. Models with a large mip map are displayed as runway, even they are not a runway. as you can see in FledViewer the entry of this model is different and I don't know for what the additional data are.Each model entry will store the bounding box of the model also and at the start of the file there is the bounding box of all models contained in the file. So modification of models in size after placement in FLED can cause a crash if a bounding box problem arise.Theoreticaly it is possible to delete a single model from the file, but then in the file header you will have to update the model counter, very easy and the resulting bounding box of the entire megatile, rather difficult.so actually we have to stay with just a FLEDViewer and not a FLEDEditor for mod-files :-( You can use the location values of the model in the xls file to build a special POI file the you can select it for a flight position. I will try to generate FLED Bookmarks automaticaly also, but caution they are placed in the registry key of FLED. :-wave agtim

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I never thought it would b easy!! I eventually got UK and all related packages reloaded so that was problem 1 solved.As for the missing sign, I got stuck in the old Fled problem of only being able to select/place a single model, the one that I have messed up and is missing. Someone advised me once to remove the model out of Fled and re-do it. problem is I can't see it to delete it, so...... I am in the process of rebuilding Lydd. I have copied the taxigraphs across from my existing package so its just a case of replacing the models. Shouldn't take that long. Thanks for all the advice.Andy

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Hi Andy,You can send just the m0xxyy.mod files containing the messed model to a.meystre@agtim.ch then I can delete the unwanted model and then send it back to you. :-wave agtim

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Big THANKS to Agtim.He modified the file and sent it back. All works wonderfully, no dodgy missing signs. Maybe I will get it finished soon.Andy:-yellow1

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