If I build my STAR to the point of the last fix on the plate, will RC vector me from that point?Example; (referring to the attached pic) I make my STAR according to the plate and end it at BASRA. I make the final point for FSNavigator purposes to runway 8L. Will RC vector me out radial 260 and then into the runway on its own? What I want is to do the STAR as discribed on the plate. That means following it along until BASRA and then maintaining the present heading for vectors to final approach as the plate tells me to. http://www3.telus.net/dport1/dansig.jpg

stars end at 40 miles from the airport. instrument approach plates (IAP) can begin at that point.here is how i would do it, and of course i will be corrected ;-)put all the points on the star in the plan. put all the points in the IAP in the planas you approach your airport, fly your star. at 40 miles from the airport, you're going to call approach (assuming there is an approach controller). he's going to tell you what runway to expect, and what kind of approach he is going to give you.at that point, choose the menu item, "IAP appr". a new menu will appear asking you what runway you want, choose the one you want. a new menu will appear, with the 15 possible approach types (ILS, VOR, VOR-DME-A, NDB, etc). choose the one you want.approach will clear you for the xxx approach to runway nnyou are expected to fly the plan on your plate, and in your plan. 7 miles from the airport, you will be switched to tower (if there is one), and the star/iap ends

I have the STAR and IAP all loaded in to the flight plan. The IAP is not an option I can save in FSNav to pick as needed. I can't arrive at CYVR using the BOOTH approach and then decide what IAP I want. This is something I have to decide when planning. Be patient - I'm trying to think out loud.So then, I make the whole plan all the way to BASRA.At BASRA is where I have to actually build into the plan that I am going to use an ILS approach to 8L. Be patient - I'm still to thinking out loud.Now, as I fly into CYVR I will get a call from centre telling me to switch to approach controller.At this point the approach controller will tell me that he is giving me 8R and lets say an NDB approach.I then let him know I want the "IAP appr" and he allows that. From that point RC will allow me to continue to fly the STAR and the IAP as I want and have programed into FSNav.RC does not actually know that I have made an IAP plan in FSNavigator does it? It just allows me to follow the plan with no hassles from that FISDO guy? BTW-we need to figure out a way to keep him in his own jurisdiction. I'm flying in Canada.So, am I even close on to the right track here?http://www3.telus.net/dport1/Radar_small.gifFS2K2 = The best add-on for = RADAR CONTACT ver.3http://www3.telus.net/dport1/Radar_small.gifhttp://www3.telus.net/dport1/dansig.jpg

>I have the STAR and IAP all loaded in to the flight plan. >The IAP is not an option I can save in FSNav to pick as >needed. That is true. you will have to manually enter the IAP points after the last STAR point>I can't arrive at CYVR using the BOOTH approach and >then decide what IAP I want. This is something I have to >decide when planning. hmm, yes you can arrive into any airport, and choose any type of approach for any runway.> Be patient - I'm trying to think out loud. >So then, I make the whole plan all the way to BASRA. >At BASRA is where I have to actually build into the plan >that I am going to use an ILS approach to 8L. > Be patient - I'm still to thinking out loud. >Now, as I fly into CYVR I will get a call from centre >telling me to switch to approach controller. >At this point the approach controller will tell me that he >is giving me 8R and lets say an NDB approach.rc approach will either give you the "full" approach or the precision approach "ILS". i don't know about ndb approaches >I then let him know I want the "IAP appr" and he allows >that. >From that point RC will allow me to continue to fly the STAR >and the IAP as I want and have programed into FSNav.yes >RC does not actually know that I have made an IAP plan in >FSNavigator does it? correct. once you have chosen an iap approach (ILS, NDB, VOR, etc) - he stops watching you. no watchdogs (altitude, heading). you are alone with your plate>It just allows me to follow the plan >with no hassles from that FISDO guy? yes ;-)>BTW-we need to figure out a way to keep him in his own >jurisdiction. I'm flying in Canada. >So, am I even close on to the right track here? >almost there :-)

Dan,JD covered most of it, but here's one correction.>Now, as I fly into CYVR I will get a call from centre >telling me to switch to approach controller. >At this point the approach controller will tell me that he >is giving me 8R and lets say an NDB approach. >I then let him know I want the "IAP appr" and he allows >that. APC will always tell you to expect vectors to runway xx - the best one with ILS and wind considerations for your type of aircraft.At that point you request IAP to whatever runway you want (usually the assigned one is good), and select ILS approach. APC will grant you for "The full ILS approach to runway xx."Using you example above, you might want to make several plans with all the IAP's for all the runways. You can export one plan to FS2000 format ending at BASRA, and use that one for RC. When you fly, and as you get the active runway from ATIS, you load in that IAP plate from your saved plans.You then fly that approach as you like. You can also let FSNav fly it.>From that point RC will allow me to continue to fly the STAR >and the IAP as I want and have programmed into FSNav. >RC does not actually know that I have made an IAP plan in >FSNavigator does it? It just allows me to follow the plan >with no hassles from that FSDO guy? Correct.>BTW-we need to figure out a way to keep him in his own >jurisdiction. I'm flying in Canada. Well, he is a very versatile guy. He holds certification for the CAA as well. ;-) As you practice more, you'll see a lot less of him. I have to consciously break rules to ever hear from him.>So, am I even close on to the right track here? Yep.

Hello Scott and the group, My goodness Scott do we have to go through the whole sequence with pop-up windows and all to fly a STAR and the IAP fixes? Can we not just include the complete STAR and IAP in the flightplan and toggle "NO Approach Control"? Seems to me that this would be more realistic as Approach uses default vectoring and this can cause a problem. No Approach Control and OUR responsibility to file and fly the final portion of the STAR and IAP without pop-up windows. That seems to me the least intrusive, and relatively realistic way to go.Regards

Oh cripes! There'll be no more "that'll do" approaches from me then! :-)Cheers,Paul

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Blais,In the real world you:1) have no idea what the active runway is until you get the briefing (either Inflight/Center or local or AWOS or ATIS)2) don't know if you will even be allowed to fly a particular STAR and IAP until Center and APC gives you clearance for it. Six times out of 10, APC will not let you fly an IAP if it's really busy. They will sequence you appropriately for the number of landing runways and traffic density and pattern.3) don't know which pattern will be used if APC is allowing IAP's. It might be stormy in the Northern corridor so all traffic is being brought in from the South.It's up to the pilot to say what he wants and he can file and request a certain STAR and IAP, but it's up to Center and APC to tell the pilot what he's really going to get. Sometimes the pilot's filed plan is approved, sometimes it's not. That's why you make the IAP request with APC when you get there. Yes, RC will always allow the STAR up to 40 miles from the airport, and grant the IAP request, but in the real world that doesn't always happen. RC attempts to simulate what you get in the real world as best as it can. That's why you get a list of options.Mostly, APC and the airport want you to fly visually, with visual on the field, so they can pack arrivals in closer. What happens around here is that Center gives POWDR Two arrival (from the West), mostly the BASEE transition, cross POWDR at 20,000', then vectored to the approach to whatever runway is active. When the pilot sees the airport on either downwind or base, they call "Visual on the Field", and are given final vectors with visual approach, then told to contact Tower at the OM or other designated fix (DYMON for 35L for example).Finally, I think you slightly misunderstand how V3 works. There are no drop-down menus. It's all on the AdvDisp window. You select from one of 5 options per page, and there are as many pages as are necessary.I hope that herlps.

Hello Scott, As I am no Real World pilot I do listen attentively to those folks who are, especially commercial ATP's. I agree completely with what you say but you must admit we are not in the Real World and, more importantly, we don't have the privilege of being aided by Approach Control who is familiar with the terrain unique to the paricular controlled airfield we are trying to land at. That would take an enormous sized program and many bucks. Thus we are going to try to make the best with the tools we have, RC, being one of them. My main objective is in using any technique allowed by RC to safely get down to a runway at the desired airfield. Nothing more. If I can use AppCntl then that is great and ideal but, in certain terrain, AppCntl isn't capable. Understood. In no way am I trying to short-change RC as a package. It simply is more reasonable to understand any program's limits. Once Billy and his boys gives us a faithful reproduction of a FMC where we can pre-program many routes to a given airfield, such as you would do for KSLC, and if conditions occur that results in a change of runway at arrival then a push of a FMC button puts your flightplan in order and current with the new data. Just don't hold our breaths waiting for Billy. You're correct in my not being familiar with RC3's method of interrogating the user for his/her choice of options. I will, though, once RC3 arrives at my QTH, ie, ham lingo for home.Regards

"Once Billy and his boys gives us a faithful reproduction of a FMC where we can pre-program many routes to a given airfield, such as you would do for KSLC, and if conditions occur that results in a change of runway at arrival then a push of a FMC button puts your flightplan in order and current with the new data. Just don't hold our breaths waiting for Billy."This is not how current FMC's work I'm afraid.If there is a change of runway and it involves a different STAR being used, than the one filed, the crew have to DELETE the existing STAR from the flight plan and re-select the new one. They cannot revert to a pre-programmed alternate flight plan for this. Same goes for selecting a different Approach in the FMC.Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your perspective, FMC's are not that automated yet.Stamatis

"Using you example above, you might want to make several plans with all the IAP's for all the runways. You can export one plan to FS2000 format ending at BASRA, and use that one for RC. When you fly, and as you get the active runway from ATIS, you load in that IAP plate from your saved plans."I may be missing the very obvious here, but what use is making all these plans including IAP's, if we know that RC will never check you for adherence when within 40 nm from destination?Isn't it easier to simply omit all that stuff that is within this 40 nm radius, since it doesn't get used by RC?Stamatis

i would do it so they show up on my handy dandy gps ;-)but that's me...

Hello Stamatis, In my trips from the US to Europe I generally use PS1.3. The FMC's in those 747-400 aircraft are usually made by Honeywell, and a few other companies, and use the updated Pegasus software. These FMC's are pre-programed by ground support and not capable of being altered, in the main, by the flight crew. There are some parameters that the flight crew can change but not many. In general, the STAR is determined by the route plan and is almost never changed but can be. What can be changed is the flight pattern that will be used from the pick-off point of the STAR to the runway ATC directs the aircraft to. Yet, if another STAR is necessary and if this is now chosen, that portion of the flightplan can be quickly changed by the flightcrew. There is a manual on this FMC named ""FMC User's Guide" which covers the 757, 767 and 747 and is available for purchase. Thus I basically stick to my original statement that the change in flightplan termination CAN be accomplished by the flightcrew and very simply with a few key presses. If you would like to continue this aspect of discussion I suggest we use more private email exchanges as this really doesn't pertain directly with RC. My email address is: [email protected]

Hello again Stamatis, I forgot to mention that the Alternate Route flightplans are already pre-programmed into the FMC by Ground Support personnel before departure.Peace

No offense, but I honestly see no point in further explaining this Blais.Happy flying!Stamatis