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Carenado Beech V35

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Well after staring at the pictures on the website for awhile I took the dive that I wish I had not.Iam not here to flame but just to speak of my experince and maybe someone has the same thoughts.Keep in mind i totally respect the work.The visual model is stunning but that's about it .The IFR view is nice and i like it but I bought this plane purely for the VC of Beech V35, which happens to be my favorite plane .The VC gauges are unclear and grainy and I thought I must be seeing things but I wasn't.I know VC's are not really clear to begin with but the bitmaps where just not sharp at all and I figure if iam going to pay for it.It should be clear from the go.Look at FSD and DF for example, not perfect but you can read the gauges without squiting your eyes.So I have sent a email requesting my money back only because it does not say they will or won't on their website.Hopefully in good buisness practice they will honor a customers request.Iam just curious what others thought.Iam not tring to start a flame war.Iam just a unhappy customer ;)Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

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Richard -dont worry, although i havent purchased the v35 itself, i HAVE purchased several of their other planes in the past (including the other bonanza most recently) and with every plane i buy from them i feel the exact same way: the panels are just not for me (both 2d & 3d) yet the exterior visuals are far and away the best out there. Ive yet to find a payware carenado plane that didnt amaze me visually...but for the more advanced or demanding simmer who spends most of his time in the cockpit and not flying in outside views where the instrument panels are of the highest importance id have to say their planes have yet to satisfy me...in fact they usually just sit in my hangar and never get any fly time unless im just interested in taking screenshots or making a new splash screen :-)Ive always said that i really wish carenado would get together with other designers such as FSD and DF...with Carenado doing the exterior model, FSD doing the air file and DF doing the panels, now THAT just might be the "perfect" plane for all of us!Dave

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Ive always said that i really wish carenado would get together with other designers such as FSD and DF
That will be a cold day in hell indeed! LOL! :-lol:-xxrotflmao

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Dave, I agree that the visual model is so stunning it's hard not to like it.The panel (IFR) I actually do like but the pilot prospect of the panel is wrong.I can see over the panel quite easy from the ones I have been in and Iam only 5'5" and iam 28 :-mad :-lol.Iam not saying the product for the average simmer is not worth $15 because it is but for a person like me who knows and loves this plane it becomes a matter of "instruments".The speed and altitude gagues are not even that of a real V35 that's what really got me at first but when i could hardly read them in the VC that's when i through in the towel.Iam tring not to make a big deal over $15 but I would expect a bit more for the money or maybe I shouldn't .I respect the hard work and I do like it but not enough and that's difference.I just hope I can get the refund I requested "nicely".Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

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It is your points exactly that caused me to make my B33 Debonair from scratch.For me the panel is the most important factor in simming-however as with all things sim others are happier with a better outside view, or perhaps a detailed vc, or the perfect flight model.After doing my project however I am much more understanding of the above situation.I easily spent 1000 hours making my panel alone-there was no time for me to do anything else. Luckily, James Eden volunteered to do the outside and likewise put in a similar amount of time. Flight models, sounds etc. can take also a similar time commitment.At a certain point, whether freeware or payware, I think the maker has to let certain areas go-a time/money (if payware) practicality.I agree (I haven't bought the vtail-but have all their other releases) that the Carenado seem always to shine on outside models-they are always stunning. I have always been a bit let down with the cockpits also-but they have obviously decided to put the majority of time into the outside-and I can respect that. From what I have experienced first hand-there really is almost not enough time to all aspects to perfection at this point in time-for freeware this may be less of a factor than payware which needs to justify the time commitment in a financial way.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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You took the words right out of my mouth.It would be like inviting a burgler who broke into your house over for dinner. :-)

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Geof,I think that Carenado are probably unaware of the fact that some simmers are actually adult people who take this hobby seriously. Even harder to believe, some simmers are certified pilots who might be able to appreciate the level of realism of a flight model...I already wrote my disapointment of Carenado's panels in an earlier post - after the release of your wonderful Deb, my expectations from payware have increased a great deal...I find it ridiculous to have to pay for an aircraft which can't be flown IFR because the small size and poor definition of its gauges.The Deb and the Archer, as far as I'm concerned are milestones in aircraft simulation. Carenado should take a good look at their panels.On a different note, I'd like to get your opinion on the Garmin 295 vs. the new AvMap EKP-IIIc.I need to purchase a new GPS and need some feedback and opinions on those products.Thanks in advance Twister

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Twister, You touched on my point very much.I only take my simming seriously because of my real life experince in flying.I take it to another level when I put my extra money into via online purchases.This is the chance we take.If I can't get a refund I will not through a fit but I will never do buisness with them again.I use FS2002 as a part time trainer so to speak.I really love the v tail beech.There is just something about that plane that iam so drawn towards.To sit in one and fly it is just something else.It's a really great plane.So i was pretty let down by the interior of the Carenado model .The gauges for the most part are not the V35.As you said many of us are not kids and our real pilots.Iam one of those.Iam only 28 but I do fly and take these type of things seriously.Iam glad you brought it and hopefully payware companies will keep that in mind.Most of us have jobs and familes to take care of.Thanks for your comments.I do respect the visual work of the Carenado planes alot but flying is not about what the plane looks like on the outside.Instruments have to be readble in the VC and IFR for payware imho. Geofa the B33 you did was great.I have really enjoyed it and I know you put alot of hard work into it. Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

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THanks for the nice comments. I don't really have an opinion on the two gps's you mention as I haven't used them. I use a 195 which I really like-I have seen the color garmin and am not sure I like it as much-while nice to look at it doesn't show as big an area as the 195 and the 195 gives me just what I need and is easily readable in bright light.If I was buying today however-I think I would consider the one you run on a pocket pc (I can't remember the name). It gives you a huge number of features the others don't-you can take the unit to the hotel for flight planning and internet etc., and the cost is about the same.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/geofanim2.gif

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Hello Geof,Thanks for your input, the 195 is a very nice device indeed. Perhaps you'd like to check out the EPK III C , I dare say you'd be surprised by its features ( http://aviation.c-map.com/ekp3c.htm ).Take careTwister

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Hi Richard,I love the Bonanza as much as you do. Carenado's external model is stunning but, like I said, the VC sucks.It's kind of frustrating - I'd love to match a decent panel to this aircraft.BTW, I am still depressed by not winning AOPA's Bonanza sweepstake...I sure would have loved to get myself such a baby.Take CareTwister

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Edmundo, I guess that's what iam tring to get at.I have seen "lately" the "STUNNING" works of DF,FSD and Phoenix.I have to compare there work to others to make sure Iam getting what I expect of a addon.I guess maybe Iam becoming to nitpicky with my observations however if I can not read all the instruments it's not flyable imho.I need to be able to cross check all instrumemts in real life and should be able to do the same with in a simulator or else it's not simulating it's eyecandy.That of course is just for me.I realize that no panel can be perfect.After all this does have to fit on a 19inch screen for me .I think the visual model and the airfile are worth the money alone but if i can not read all the gauges then i can not fly it proper.Once agin that is just for me.The fact that the speed indicator and the altitude indicator are not that of the real life counter part takes away from the "reality" of the simulation.When seeing a slogon "the reall B35" to me that means it should be just like it in every aspect no just half.I think that's a gimick in itself .Fs2002 uses "as real as it gets" from a flight simming stand point I think this is true.It recreates the flying enviroment in a unbelieveable way.So the final point to my complaint is not that iam unhappy with the product but feel mislead and based on that I have asked for my money back.I do not feel as though Carenado does not deserve a pat on the back for the work done but I do think that if you are going to recreate a plane for payware the cockpit should be just as stunning as the external model.You can not call something "he Real Beech B35" and use instruments that are not in the real thing.That's misleading.I debut in my head on this alot because the flight model is very nice.If the VC was crystal clear like DF i would really love this plane to be honest.The IFR view is really not that bad at all.but the reality is that eyecandy sells more than realizm in most cases .I do think that Carendo does take alot of time into there work but guys the interior is alot more important to me.I mean I do not fly the plane from the outside ;)Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

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Well I just got a responce and not the one I wanted.It just said they could offer a free model which I think is fair enough .Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

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Richard,I have the Carenado F33 and I like it very much. It's fun to fly and looks great. The 2D panel looks pretty nice and I can read the gauges. You say they don't have the real gauges, but some models and airplanes can have a variety of gauges, and depends on the year of manufacture, the country of usage, and the options put on by the owner. The VC is pretty nice in my opinion, but I don't use the VC to read the gauges, but to look around. I believe the Bonanza was well worth the $15 I spent, and I'd do it again, and I think that Carenado is being very generous to offer you another model.Bill

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hey bill have not heard from you in awhile you must be working hard ;).Yes I was REALLY surprised by that offer.I do think the aircraft visually are worth the money but the cockpit is what i truely care about .The fact that some of the gauges are not true beechcraft instruments and that the VC is so unclear does not make me feel like my money was well spent, atleast from a interior prospective.This is exactly how I explained myself in the email I sent them.They where very quick to respond and I now feel a bit better about giving them my $15 even though it was not the answer i was looking for.I hope they fix some of this problems with a patch.We all now how clear a VC can be so there is no excuse for it not to be atleast from payware prospective.VC's iam sure are VERY VERY hard work and VERY time consuming but most people are going to start comparing DF's archer VC to most "newer payware" projects out there.Iam one of those people.I spent $20 for the archer and it's a full gmax model,all fs2002 features,crystal clear VC and 2d view plus config o matic and text o matic with sounds.When comparing that with what i just purchased I was some what surprised.I do not understand why the outside looks as good as it does yet the interior is not .It boggles me a bit.they did do a great job with though I just think for payware it needs to be one notch better in clearity for VC and some gauges then it's perfect product .,Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

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Richard,In other words, you don't like this product because the VC is not as good as you thought? By that standard, you should absolutely hate the ERJ. Bill

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Bill :( No it was not just the VC.There where a few other things that got to me.Besides the VC clearity but the VC was one of the reasons I got this plane.It looks very clear on there website but it's a different picture once you buy it.That's what got me a bit upset at first.The 2d panel is nice though although some of the gagues do not represent true beech parts.There were a few other nit picky things that really got to me but all is fine now.After a few emails Iam pretty happy.I think the quick support and free offering was enough to let everything go.I must admit though, the damm plane is starting to grow on me because they responded quick.and Iam considering that reality xp now :) Bill you know I love your work ! iam your chief marketing officer REMEMBER :-lol Richard Dillon KATLSr First Officer www.jetstarairlines.com"Bill Grabowski's"ERJ-145 panel Beta TeamMD-11 panel Beta Team____________________________"Lets Roll" 9/11 Specs AMD 1600 XP 512MB DDR GF3 ti 200 64MB SBliveCh Products Yoke and Pedals(usb)Windows 2000 SP2

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The Anywhere Map is very functional but half of its features do not work outside of the U.S. (data link and such ).You're so lucky to be able to travel to Oshkosh ! Don't forget to take plenty of pictures and post them on Avsim.Take careTwister

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The new Flight 1 421C panels are no better. Very disappointed with the legibility, design, and ease of use. The Archer II is so vastly superior to anything else I've seen, that "good enough" just isn't good enough any more. I haven't tried the Debonair since I won't do without the VC anymore.

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Richard,I love V-tail Bonanzas, and since your post alerted me to the fact that it was now available, I got it last night. After doing some test flights and checking out its features, I made these screen shots.http://home.attbi.com/~wsgrabowski/Vtail.jpghttp://home.attbi.com/~wsgrabowski/Panel2D.jpghttp://home.attbi.com/~wsgrabowski/VCfront.jpghttp://home.attbi.com/~wsgrabowski/VCside.jpgI think this is a pretty cool airplane. To fix the not-so-attractive attitude indicator, I switched to the default Cessna gauge as recommended by Techazoid in another post on this forum, not pictured here. And the V-tail flies real nice too. The cockpit views don't have the greenish tint that the F33 has. I like it... a lot.Bill

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>The new Flight 1 421C panels are no better. Very >disappointed with the legibility, design, and ease of use. >The Archer II is so vastly superior to anything else I've >seen, that "good enough" just isn't good enough any more. I >haven't tried the Debonair since I won't do without the VC >anymore. If your P/C can handle it, there is a 1024*1024 file modification for the 421C's virtual panel. It makes the instruments extremely clear. I have the Archer also & agree that it's VC panel is one of the best in the business, but the 421 panel (with mod's) & dome light change is right up there with it.L.Adamson

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