no "APProach" subfolders under rc3\winwood\LFPG

[djsebx 0]

HelloI found a website that hosts several Paris CDG real ATC recordings. Most of them can be set into rc3winwoodfranceapp folder , but some of them are particularly good for LFPG approach frequence (because of worlds like those "roissy", "concorde" etc..).I'd like to set these last ones into LFPG approach chatter files subfolder, but LFPG only has "gd" and "cd" subfolders. Will this works if i create "app" subfolder ? I just have enough time to convert .ram files into .wav but none to fly and try them into RC3 , bad exams to pass...thanks :)

[Guest Scott Campbell]

Yes. Just create the app folder and convert and drop in the files. It's one huge plus of RC that you can add chatter.

[jd 57]

just be sure to rename the files correctly

[Ray Proudfoot 8,961]

Could you direct me to the source of these files please?Thanks,

[djsebx 0]

sure this website is :http://www.chez.com/controleaerien/enregistre.htmlThe author has been contacted because i thought about sharing for free these converted files when it works fine for me..By the way, the files once converted don't work in fs2002 with RC3 when placed in winwoodfranceappBut they do when in winwoodlfpgappi deleted winwoodfranceapp files.txtits backup is in windows dustbin ;)the files are app1.wav app2.wav app3.wav until app25.wavwith format Microsft ADPCM 8khz 4bits monomy settings :radar contact 3.1 chatter maximumDuring flights LFMP - LFPO and LFMN - EGLL, no chatter heard when departure contacted neither on approach at LFPO.But LFPG - LFPG flight did work, i had chatter files at departure and approach (just after i contacted paris control above FL150, i asked new destination LFPG :) )

[Ray Proudfoot 8,961]

Thanks for the link. It may be difficult to successfully use them in RC as some of them are quite long (nearly 1 minute) and could interfere with ATC instructions. Also, many are in French - a language I never learnt much to my shame. This surprised me - aren't all ATC commands meant to be in English especially at major airports.Regards,

[djsebx 0]

You're right, rules say speak in english even between two french people ATC/pilot, especially at LFPG Paris Charles de Gaulle (i don't know if it's the same at LFPO and LFPB.But french pilots and ATC speak in french most of time. Two or three of these samples let us hear how ATC has to mix english / french, driving them crazy when an Air France pilot speaks both english / french :) :)Anyway, the wav heard in New York Oceanic ARTCC are long too, and they works fine. They don't interfer with ATC instructions to me because the ATC cut the chatter playing or wait for the chatter to be finished, in order to tell me a new instruction.So i don't know how to manage about winwoodfranc

[PeteP 2]

Hi Ray,...aren't all ATC commands meant to be in English especially at major airports.Interestingly enough, no, they aren't. Although it's a very widely held belief, English is not the only language that can be used for ATC although it should always be available for international flights. In the US, the FAA has mandated the use of English but in the rest of the world, things are a little different.The use of English as the aviation lingua franca is a well established practice but it is not embodied in any ICAO Standard, only in a Recommended Practice - that is, a rule of a lesser binding value since its uniform application is considered desirable instead of necessary, as in the case of a Standard. ICAO's view is, "Pending the development and adoption of a more suitable form of speech for universal use in aeronautical radiotelephony communications, the English language should be used as such and should be available, on request from any aircraft station.., at all stations on the ground serving designated airports and routes used by international air services." (ICAO Annex 10 - my emphases). Incidentally, since the legal status of this rule does not guarantee its immediate and full implementation, Annex 10 further recommends that when the aircraft and the station on the ground cannot use a common language, "arrangements be made between the competent ATS authority and the aircraft operator concerned for the provision of an interpreter by the latter"!!!!!!!!Outside the US, each state is entitled to use any language it choses for ATC and although many do specify English there are many others who allow their own national language - political considerations before safety perhaps? As an aside, the French authorities, who have received much criticism over the years for the use of French in ATC especially at busy international airports and en-route centres, eventually got around to appyling an English-only rule at Charles de Gaulle last year - it lasted just one month before French slipped back in. ICAO Annex 1, Personnel Licensing, currently includes an international Standard that requires air traffic controllers to demonstrate knowledge in "the language or languages nationally designated for use in air traffic control and ability to speak such language or languages without accent or impediment which would adversely affect radio communication." Again though, ICAO has no power to mandate this and its implementation is left to individual states and/or their ATS providers. In many case, Eurocontrol, for example, this is carried out to the highest of standards but in some areas of the world (I'll leave you to fill in which!) the level of language and communication skills is extremely poor.Despite the fact that communication difficulties have lead to numerous incidents and accidents (some of them very high profile) we're still a long way from achieving the goal of common standards for international ATC communications. We'll get there one day but I think I'll be long-retired before it happens.Pete

[Ray Proudfoot 8,961]

Hi,<>I don't have those so I can't judge. When we've been asked to provide wav files the emphasis has always been that they should be of short duration. Even if RC interrupts a wav file to issue further commands I don't think I'll use those you pointed to as I can't really understand what's being said anyway. :-(I don't know if you have downloaded the files I recorded for Manchester (EGCC). If not you can get them at Scott's website here. http://fsflightdeck.com/rcv3/Regards,

[Ray Proudfoot 8,961]

Hi Pete,Thanks very much for providing such a comprehensive and enlightening answer. I hadn't appreciated it wasn't manadatory. Of course we all know that some countries enforce the rules more rigidly than others. I shall leave it at that! ;-)Cheers,

[djsebx 0]

I got it !I know why the sounds in winwoodfranceapp were not played. Because there are other France FIR's folders, and these are the ones to use !Bordeaux FIR winwood379Brest FIR winwood375Marseille FIR winwood107Paris FIR windwood103Reims FIR windwood383:) anyway i didn't understand what's the use of france folder then :

[Ray Proudfoot 8,961]

Well done for working things out! The purpose of the France folder (as I understand it) is that RC should play the appropriate files in the sub-folders if it can't find any specifically for the airport you're departing from or arriving at. If those FIRs you mentioned don't have any files in the relevant sub-folders then the general France files will be played.For example, my EGCC files get priority when I'm around Manchester but should I fly to Birmingham (EGBB) where there aren't any files specifically for that airport then the default UK ones will be played instead.Regards,