JD-I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but is there any way for you to incorporate the MSA circle into the controller page in the new version? Something along the line of defining the reference point and setting altitudes for the various sections per the compass rose?I don't have any idea of the necessary work this might involve, but it would solve a host of problems. I was flying to Missoula MT last night and was vectored to the ILS at such a high altitude there was no way to capture correctly. The terrain cuses this, so that's why I wonder if there is a work around other than lowering the MSA figure on the controller page and then hoping you don't whack the terrain!Thanks-Mike

not really. i'm not getting the msa out of any magical database. i actually read the elevations out of a terrain database.you can override the msa on the controllers page, to match what the msa is in the circle for your approachjd

JD-The issue is that the MSA may vary depending upon your approach heading. The change may not be good (too low) for some headings.Thanks

i understand. but for instance, if you select runway 18, as your arrival runway on the controllers page, and there is a higher/lower value for the msa than the one i supply, then change it on the controller screen.i know what you are asking for, i just don't have the data, to put on the screen. if i did, that would be a different story.the other option, if you know there are wide deviations of msa values for a given airport, might not be a bad idea to check the arrival notams box, and make all descent clearances at your discretionjd

JD-Thanks for the reply. Aren't you glad all of us try to talk you into more work? I was just trying to see if there is a way, assuming RC has a feel for where you are relative to a given navaid, to preset a MSA for relative bearings within a fixed distance from a navaid. Many times I do not know what my arrival runway will be at the start of a flight, so the arrival notams is probably the best way to go for mountainous terrain which can vary widely.Thanks-Mike

It could be done but would be a massive amount of work for someone because of the different MSA for each quadrant and the "pie" heading boundaries are not consistent among airports. That would be quite a bit of work to ingest and add a heck of a number of fields to add to the runway/ils database defining up to four pie pieces each with its own boundaries and MSA.I am not the volunteer to do this.Now I am not familiar with the actual fields present in some of the soon to go away DAFIF databases, but maybe the info is there in the format. Perhaps a query to Richard Stefan at navdata.at might provide info.

I'm not talking about adding a database of MSA info. What I was referring to was the USER adding the appropriate info on the controllers page. For example, there would be a blank to be filled in for: the referred navaid (which is already in the database), a distance blank for the radius, and blanks for heading relative to the navaid and a blank for the associated altitude constraint. All of this presupposes, however, that the program itself is aware of where you are relative to that navaid.Therefore if I were flying to Missoula, I would get out the chart and find the appropriate info and fill in the blanks.Thanks-

That could be done but you would have to fill this in preflight before your destination runway is known. What if the wind shifts?It depends on your weather program. One even provides a frontal passage "on cue" so to speak.The MSA circle might shift to a different NAVAID center and if the surrounding terrain is different from another located one in that shift of a few miles, then different MSA could apply. I'm generally thinking of MSA limits centered on OM NDBs.

I see what you mean. Multiple referred navaids? Does seem like a lot of work, especially in the mountainous areas that this is the greatest problem. Oh well, we just have to live with what we have.I do appreciate all the replies.Thanks-

Hi Mike,your idea of user-defined MSAs sounds very interesting. I wonder if this option could be implemented in V4.Normally (not always) a MSA is centered on the principal navaid serving an airport. Should be very interesting to have an "MSA box" able to handle at least 4 different sectors with different MSA and specify the highest radius of these MSA...Should also be very interesting if different MSA could be input at different distances from the specified navaid. Maybe too complicated...But at least a simplified MSA box would be very interesting...Best regards

one thing i can guarantee, it won't be in v4. :-)on the list for v5jd

OK !It seems that V4 has plenty of new and corrected features to keep us busy while waiting V5...