Olmo

Correct. Right. But don't be buffled seeing DA/H published on NPAs. Among the three types of applicable descent techinques (CDFA, Constant Angle Descent and Stepdown Descent) the Continuous Descent Final Approach is the one that treats NPA's minima as DA/H without getting RVR penalties. Regards, Olmo DI CARLO

ICAO Doc 8168 talking about how to determine DA/DH:"OCA/H values are based on the standard conditions [..] that follow [..] ILS: a ) Category I flown with pressure altimeter; b ) Category II flown with radio altimeter and flight director;". The RA wouldn't simply allow you to define your position 200ft above the runway threshold. All the heights (MDH/DH) are based on threshold elevation (aerodrome elevation when applicable) and not on what lies direclty below the aircraft. For the same reason charts depicting a Cat. II approach will provide the usual DA/H plus the RA. Regards, Olmo DI CARLO

The NAV OPTIONS 2/2 (FCOM Vol2 11.42.55) page is missing the Select Desired Waypoint Page (FCOM Vol2 11.42.14) whenever trying to insert a VOR or DME that has a duplicate identifier inside the NAV Database.I'm unable to decide which navaid will be inhibited among the same identifier althought I would suppose the first on the list of Desired Waypoint Page (shown through LEGS or REF NAV DATA pages). This can be confirmed by the fact that when trying to inhibit for example PIS or ROM I'm getting INVALID ENTRY --> they are both shown as NDBs on the first row of the Select Page.Regards,Olmo Matteo DI CARLO

I got it now, thanks for the patience to Jan-Paul and Kris. It seems that also real life MD11 drivers had discussed about it on another forum. Example to make sure that things are clear to everybody:1. go to ACT F-PLN 2/2 and note the distance between (S/C) and (T/C) --> 17NM;2. type in the scratchpad KUKUN/-17 and LSK over KUKUN to get 017KUK;3. Constrain 017KUK with the following /S360 (S/C will start here);4. (T/C) will match KUKUN position.Regards,Olmo Matteo DI CARLO

Indeed but it isn't a certified training simulator. Right but lets discuss about the indications provided by the legs page. Using /S380 or /SFL380 you are telling the FMS where to end the step climb. By doing so it will disregard his optimum climb profile and recalculate the S/C (Step Climb) in order to have the T/C (Top of Climb) exactly over the constrained fix.Example:We are flying inbound A, B, C at F360 and the optimum S/C calculated by the FMS is located between A and B. Legs page would be like this....A 1500 .82 FL360 ---> We left A at 1500UTC at Mach0.82 FL360(S/C) 1510 .82 FL360 ---> FMS suggesting to start the Step Climb at 1510UTC at Mach0.82 while we are still at FL360(T/C) 1512 .82 FL380 ---> FMS predicts that at 1512UTC at Mach0.82 we will reach FL380 (Top of Climb)B 1523 .82 FL380 ---> FMS predicts that we will overfly B at 1523UTC at Mach0.82 at FL380C 1547 .82 FL380 ---> FMS predicts that we will overfly C at 1547UTC at Mach0.82 at FL380Now lets insert a S/C constrain over C ---> /S380 or /SFL380. Back to the legs page.....A 1500 .82 FL360 ---> We left A at 1500UTC at Mach0.82 FL360B 1522 .82 FL360 ---> FMS predicts that we will overfly B at 1522UTC at Mach0.82 at FL360(S/C) 1547 .82 FL360 ---> FMS is suggesting to start the Step Climb at 1547UTC at Mach0.82 in order to achieve the T/C over C(T/C) 1549 .82 FL380 ---> FMS predicts that at 1549UTC at Mach0.82 we will reach FL380C 1549 .82 SFL380 ---> FMS predicts that at 1549UTC, while reaching our T/C we will overfly C at 1549UTC at Mach0.82 at FL380When you try to anticipate the optimum climb profile provided by the FMS, the a/c behaves by the book but when I try to postpone the S/C nothing changes although the FMS Ops Manual clearly states that.... Looking at the posted screenshot.... and keeping in mind the above description we can see that even with a constrain over KUKUN (SFL380) the FMS will start and end his climb at FL380 well before KUKUN (9' before) and completely ignore the constrain command. Jan-Paul you are right but as shown on the previous screenshot....1. The constrain as been entered (SFL380);2. The S/C and T/C haven't been recomputed accordingly.Regards,Olmo Matteo DI CARLO

Ciao Kris, From what is written in the FMS Operating manual, my understanding is that the a/c will complete his step climb over KUKUN... ????? The a/c is already flying at FL360 and the S/C has been constrained on KUKUN by typing /S380 and confirmed by SFL380 on the ALT column The point is that notwithstanding the entered constrain, the FMS is still planning to S/C at FL380 at the optimum calculated position about 9' before KUKUN.Regards,Olmo Matteo DI CARLO

Why? We are all here to share the same passion, trying to have fun and why not...maybe also learn something. Right but I can assure you that PMDG's AOM is a faithful copy of the original one. Right, the a/c will always try to provide a DUAL LAND irrespectively of the ILS category you are going to fly (except during circling) as long as AP and ATS are engaged.DUAL LAND doesn't mean that your are commited to a full autoland but that all system involved are fully functional and comply with the Fail Operational criteria:"[..] in the event of a failure below alert height, the approach, flare and landing, can be completed automatically. In the event of a failure, the automatic landing system will operate as a fail-passive system" (EU-OPS).In these way you are allowed to shoot an ILS CAT III where a "[..] fully coupled automatic approach and landing, through touchdown and ground rollout [..]" is required. "SINGLE LAND provides same performances as DUAL LAND but requires higher minimums due to its fail passive capability". EU-OPS tells us the meaning of fail passive:"A flight control system is fail-passive if, in the event of a failure, there is no significant out-of-trim condition or deviation of flight path or attitude but the landing is not completed automatically. For a fail-passive automatic flight control system the pilot assumes control of the aeroplane after a failure."I'm not an expert about american pubs but those 2 files are suggested for the ones that want to have even more reference...AC120-28D CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL OF CATEGORY III WEATHER MINIMA FOR TAKEOFF, LANDING, AND ROLLOUTAC120-29A CRITERIA FOR APPROVAL OF CATEGORY I AND CATEGORY II WEATHER MINIMA FOR APPROACH From that point on you could still use the EXIT FROM APPROACH MODES procedure (SP.30.6) by pressing the G/A button followed immediately by an altitude/heading mode or the SIDE STEP MANEUVER FROM ILS APPROACHES (SP.30.7) by disengaging the AP and tuning a fake ILS frequency --> "[..] system will immediately drop to basic modes [..]".Regards,Olmo Matteo DI CARLO

According the FMS Operating Manual (FMS.40.44) there is a "[..] capability to constrain the aircraft to an altitude at a waypoint cruise. [..] The flight level must be equal to one [..] on the F-PLN INIT page. [..] Entry of an altitude constraint during cruise flight will relocate the associated S/C to the constrained waypoint [..]".When I'm trying to input a S/C before the optimum position calculated by the FMS everything works as stated but when delaying it I get the predictions related to the optimum S/C position instead of the constrained one. Some pics will probably make everything easier to understand.1. a/c cruising at FL360 with a S/C at FL380 in the F-PLN INIT CRZ LEVELS2. typed /S380 at KUKUN........shows that regardless of the entered constrain, the FMS hasn't relocated the constrained S/C and is making predictions on the assumption that the a/c will overfly NANER and KOSIV steady at FL380. Is this the way it's supposed to work?Regards,Olmo Matteo DI CARLO

Paul, I don't know which version of the FCOM you are using but the one provided by PMDG (04AUG2008) at page SP.30.6 reports exactly the same sentence of page PT.30.29 "When established on the ILS localizer and prior to DUAL/SINGLE LAND annunciation, preselect the FCP altitude to the same as the MDA value." The meaning of the sentence is the following.....in order to get the APPR ONLY you have to setup the FCP to the preselected BARO MDA after having captured the localizer (FMA --> LOC) but before passing 1500ft AGL. The glide should be captured before 1500ft AGL regardless of the FCP setting. Passing 1500ft AGL + 10 seconds "[..] on LOC and G/S, [..] AFS performs a logic and system status check [..]".The logic would be more or less like this --> on LOC, on G/S, FCP=MDA --> APPR ONLY & altitude/heading hold at MDA.Regards,Olmo Matteo DI CARLO

Bryan,thanks for the quick reply but APPR ONLY should also be available when performing an ILS followed by a circling as stated on FCOM page PT.30.29 Circling Approach (All Engines)....Regards,Olmo Matteo DI CARLO

Hi all,I'm always getting the DUAL LAND annunciation when passing 1500ft AGL while perfoming an ILS followed by a circling with the following cockpit setup:1. Both BARO minimums on the circling MDA (890ft)2. FMA --> LOC - LAND ARMED - HOLD 2100 once established on the LOC3. FCP = MDA (890ft)4. GS capture (FMA --> LOC - LAND ARMED - G/S 2100)I never get the supposed APPR ONLY on the FMA passing 1500ft AGL nor the FMA turns to altitude/heading hold at the MDA. Any advice would be greatly appreciatedRegards,Olmo Matteo DI CARLO

Try https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/index.cfmit's held by National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency and used by USAF.Otherwise try http://www.eurocontrol.int/ais/ under the menu AIS websites.Hope these helps,Olmo Matteo Di CarloCPL/IRLIRF

> In real life ATC will never clear you for a visual approach unless you ask for it, they are not allowed to impose it on you.You are right when talking about ICAO procedures. PANS ATM/501 "Air Traffic Management" 14th edition(former DOC4444) says about visual approaches:"Subject to the conditions in 6.5.3.3, clearance foran IFR flight to execute a visual approach MAY BE REQUESTED bya flight crew or INITIADED by the controller. In the latter case, theCONCURRENCE of the flight crew shall be REQUIRED.6.5.3.2 Controllers shall exercise caution in initiating avisual approach when there is reason to believe that the flightcrew concerned is not familiar with the aerodrome and itssurrounding terrain. Controllers should also take into considerationthe prevailing traffic and weather conditions wheninitiating visual approaches.6.5.3.3 An IFR flight may be cleared to execute a visualapproach provided the pilot can maintain visual reference tothe terrain and:a) the reported ceiling is at or above the approved initialapproach level for the aircraft so cleared; or:( the pilot reports at the initial approach level or at anytime during the instrument approach procedure that themeteorological conditions are such that withreasonable assurance a visual approach and landingcan be completed."So this is how it should work worldwide, but....you should first check DOC7030 "REGIONAL SUPPLEMENTARY PROCEDURES" and national publications like AIP, AIM, etc...to look after differences that every contracting state may have adopted.In the US a lot of things are different vs ICAO procedures; for example fixed transition altitude at 18'000, holding entry procedures, etc...The CONTACT APPROACH procedure doesn't exist among the ICAO rules.The key to success as always is planning: before going to a foreign country a pilot should be aware of the "local" procedures.Cheers,Olmo Matteo Di CarloCPL/IRLIRFPSIf somebody is interesed in all the 18th annexes to Chicago's Convention (DOC7300) they can be freely downloaded at www.atcbox.com