Buffaloron

Like others i am now receiving letters or emails of non payment ? Computer Pilot had me convinced that I was in arrears and oved the 20 eu. I. Went as far as asking them when my suscription ended and I get no replies with the exception of a letter showing that they triied to. Contact me two times I don 't forsee any new subscriptions coming their way until they can fix this mess. Ron

Okayy I have muddie this topic up. Right now after moving my connection directly to the rear USB ports on my PC BOTH the IFLY and The PMDG work perfectly. My queryy was only curiosity. Why did they only work from the front ports with the IFLY when they were plugged into the front USB ports but they now work with both IFLY and PMDG when plugged into the rear ports . My only conclusion to this was that the front ports are actally a hub and the rear ports are direct to the motherboard. otherwise it makes absolutely no sense that the original configuration of using the front USB ports would have created the problem of the devices working with on product and not the other. I am going to do a USB signal test on both the front and rear ports just to see if there is a difference between the two connection points. I will be using the test facilities provided by ASUS for my motherboard. It has to be something in the actaul hardware connection. Of course it will never reveal to me why IFLy worked but PMDG did not. So it will probably go down in my history as one of the gremlins that creep up in complex systems such as flight deck building and all of the things that have to work in concert Ron (aka granpa)

Correction it was 49 for the MCP and 48 for the EFIS It was also supposed to br both work with the PMDG and IFly Ron

Just clear things up both my MCP and EFIS have external power supplies, there was no way to make them work even with the Ifly acft without them. Alejandro at Opencockpits made that clear to me from the beginning. So no I wasn't using the usb port to power them. Both devices worked with IFly as usb ports 48 MCP and 49 MCP once I moved them to the rear of my motherboard the were assigned posrts 101 EFIS and 103 MCP and they now work with both the PMDG and MCP. The reason I had them on the front port is that my main monitor is 55" and I needed to be further away from it. I am now ordering two 36' active USB cables so I can run the cables from the back of the computer over to my Cockpit which is across the room. I will let you know if the active cables do the job Ron (aka Granpa)

I am not postive but the only difference between the Ifly and the PMDG is that the Ifly uses IOCP, right now I am just cutting my teeth on FSUIPC and Lua with a slight learning curve. Sioc is yet another subject along with IOCP. I can tell you for a fact that with over 30 yrs of building computers I never am surprised at anything. I built my first computer in 1979 it was a Southwest Technical 6800 and still have the old 8 bit thing. (so what has this to do with flight sim anyhow ???) Well after some tweaking on the EFIS I am trying to figure out why the EFIS ND Range selector seem to get hung up it appears to be a timing thing as it will release after a short period. It only happens if I turn the knob to quickly. I remember reading something in this site about it. Thanks Much Ron (aka Granpa)

Alejandro, Roar, Crankpin Okay guys it only took loosing all of my already sparse hair but................. I GOT IT So you may ask what did the trick. Well my Ifly acft was working great so I figured it could not be the hardware WRONG !! After reading every single post on the AVSIM site since the inception of the PMDG LUA I decided to test the ports that my EFIS and MCP were plugged into. Noting nothing wrong I changed them anyhow and low and behold the darn thing work. It appears that both devices are sensitive to the usb port they are plugged into. Don’t ask me how but they are. After hours of reading the following was obvious. 1. Sioc communicated with the hardware no problem 2. FSUIPC and LUA communicated with FSX no problem' 3 FSUICP AND LUA did not communicate with the SIOC BIG problem. After following you recommendations I was baffled by this, of course I was now learning more about LUA, SIOC than I ever dreamed of which was not a bad thing. Soooooo this morning I decided to look strictly at the hardware interface and yep it worked. (moved devices to a different USB port, I forgot that the USB ports on the front of my computer were basically a USB HUB when I moved the I/F directly to the MB in the back of my computer , welll THEY WORK It always the little things, isn't it ? So please keep in touch and realized that in our small Sim community that friends are made for life. Thanks Much Ron (aka Granpa)

Okay so I removed everything not relvant to using the OC devices. Then I ran FSX and logged Lua Variables and createwd a new FSUIPC log. The MCP and EFIS did not work but in the log file I get the following 658839 LUA.0: beginning "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua" 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:38 658839 LUA.1: beginning "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua" 658839 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:9 658839 LUA.0: Global: ipcPARAM = 0 658839 LUA.1: Global: ipcPARAM = 0 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:10 658839 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:10 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:50 658839 LUA.1: Global: hdg_mode = 1 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:40 658839 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:11 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:54 658839 LUA.1: Global: atarm = -1 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:52 658839 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:12 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:58 658839 LUA.1: Global: crsl = 500 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:56 658839 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:13 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:63 658839 LUA.1: Global: crsr = 500 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:60 658839 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:14 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:67 658839 LUA.1: Global: spd = -1 658839 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:65 658855 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:15 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:78 658855 LUA.1: Global: hdg = -1 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:69 658855 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:16 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:89 658855 LUA.1: Global: alt = -1 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:80 658855 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:17 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:109 658855 LUA.1: Global: vsw = -1 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:91 658855 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:18 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:119 658855 LUA.1: Global: MCP_N1 = -1 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:111 658855 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:19 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:129 658855 LUA.1: Global: MCP_Speed = -1 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:121 658855 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:20 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:140 658855 LUA.1: Global: MCP_LvlChg = -1 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:132 658855 LUA.1: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua:21 658855 LUA.0: D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua:150 658855 LUA.1: Global: MCP_VNav = -1 This goes on for every LUA variable and seems to get caught in a loop because it repeats to the point that my FSUIPC.log was 128 pages long . Any suggestions ??

Yep while you were looking at them I was giving them another once over and decided to disconnect All of my other hardware and leave the OC stuff connected. The AUTO section , when I moved as the first entry the files did not register so I placed them after the GENERAL section and they loaded they are still there but with such a busy file are easy to overlook. I do not know why the IOCard Master is there but I was unwilling to take it out because my Ifly acft were working. I tried renaming my files to .txt but the server would not allow me to upload them. Probably just temperment or my usual fat fingering of the keyboard. So I will print out your files copy and backup mine and try the simple approach I will get some of it done tonight and the rest later in the day tomorrow (darn Honey-Do List, wish I could simulate that) Thank You for your input it always help to have a second opinion and when this thing works believe me I plan on doing a LOT of flying and very little programmin or setup (until I built some of the o/h panels) Give me soemthing that works and I gurantee I will find a way to break it. Ron (aka Granpa)

Okay here they are [************** SIOC ***************] [ Nombre asignado al SIOC / SIOC name ] Name=Pruebas IOCP_port=8092 IOCP_timeout=400 Minimized=No toggle_delay=20 CONFIG_FILE=C:\Program Files\IOCards\SIOC\NGXMCPEFIS.ssi Monitor_disable=No Monitor_time=2 [************** IOCARDS MODULE ***************] [ Disable IOCards module ] IOCard_disable=No [ Frequency divisor for delay the analogic axes. (1-999)] Divisor_AD=10 [------------- CARDS CONFIG -------------] [ IOCard Master ] MASTER=0,5,1,49 MASTER=1,7,1,48 [ FSUIPC disable mode yes/no ] FSUipcdisable=No [ FSUIPC refresh ] FSUipcRefresh=50 [************** IOCP CLIENTS MODULES ***************] IOCPini_delay=3000 IOCPclient0_disable=yes IOCPclient0_host=localhost IOCPclient0_port=8099 [************** IOCP CLIENT MODULE #1 ***************] IOCPclient1_disable=Yes IOCPclient1_host=localhost IOCPclient1_port=8099 [************** KEYBOARD EMULATOR MODULE ***************] [ Nombre exacto de la ventana donde se enviarán las teclas ] [ Name of window for key send ] [window = "Project Magenta Glass Cockpit - Build 396" ] window = "Microsoft Flight Simulator - Cien años de Aviación" [ Asignación de teclas ] [ assign your keys ] #1=A #2=B #3=C #4=D #5=E #6=F #7=G #8=S #9=I #10=J #11=K #12=L #13=M #14=N #15=O #16=P #17=Q #18=R #19=S #20=T #21=U #22=V #23=W #24=X #25=Y #26=Z #27=1 #28=2 #29=3 #30=4 #31=5 #32=6 #33=7 #34=8 #35=9 #36=0 #37=< #38=, #39=. #40=- #41=* #42=+ #43=// #44=/0 #45=/1 #46=/A #47= #48= #49= #50= #51= #52= #53= #54= #55= #56= #57= #58= #59= #60= #61= #62= #63= #64= #65= #66= #67= #68= #69= #70= #71= #72= #73= #74= #75= #76= #77= #78= #79= #80= #81= #82= #83= #84= #85= #86= #87= #88=<a #200=<b [ End of File ] [MONITOR] Monitor0=0,66C0,1,0 Monitor1=0,6635,0,0 Monitor2=0,66E6,0,0 Monitor3=0,66E7,0,0 [General] UpdatedByVersion=4812c History=428SHTWEG4IL5FP2BUN88 AxesWrongRange=No TCASid=Flight TCASrange=40 AxisCalibration=No DirectAxesToCalibs=No ShowMultilineWindow=Yes SuppressSingleline=No SuppressMultilineFS=No AxisIntercepts=No DontResetAxes=No InitDelay=0 GetNearestAirports=Yes WeatherReadFactor=2 WeatherRewriteSeconds=1 CustomWeatherModify=No SimConnectStallTime=1 LuaRerunDelay=66 Console=No MouseWheelTrim=No MouseWheelTrimSpeed=1 JoystickTimeout=20 PollGFTQ6=Yes BlankDisplays=No FixControlAccel=No FixMachSpeedBug=No DeleteVehiclesForAES=Yes VisibilityOptions=No OneCloudLayer=No CloudTurbulence=No CloudIcing=No GenerateCirrus=No SuppressCloudTurbulence=No MaxIce=-4 MinIce=-4 UpperWindGusts=No SuppressWindTurbulence=No SuppressWindVariance=No WindTurbulence=No TurbulenceRate=1.0,5.0 TurbulenceDivisor=20,20,40,40 SuppressAllGusts=No MaxSurfaceWind=0 WindLimitLevel=200 WindDiscardLevel=400 WindAjustAltitude=No WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000 SmoothBySimTime=No WindSmoothing=No WindSmoothness=2 WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes PressureSmoothness=0 TemperatureSmoothness=0 DisconnTrimForAP=No ZeroElevForAPAlt=No ThrottleSyncAll=Yes WhiteMessages=No ShowPMcontrols=No SpoilerIncrement=512 MagicBattery=No RudderSpikeRemoval=No ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No AileronSpikeRemoval=No ReversedElevatorTrim=No ClockSync=Yes ClockSyncMins=5 ClearWeatherDynamics=No OwnWeatherChanges=No TimeForSelect=4 LoadFlightMenu=No LoadPlanMenu=No PauseAfterCrash=No BrakeReleaseThreshold=75 SaveDataWithFlights=No ZapSound=firework ShortAircraftNameOk=No UseProfiles=Yes EnableMouseLook=No ConsoleWindow=100,100,777,471 MouseWheelMove=No AutoScanDevices=Yes LogReads=Yes FSVersionUsed="Microsoft Flight Simulator X",10.0.61637.0 SimConnectUsed=10.0.61259.0 [AUTO] 1=lua NGXEFIS_PP_202 2=lua NGXMCP_PP_202 [JoyNames] AutoAssignLetters=Yes 1=Saitek Pro Flight Yoke 1.GUID={2359E800-5D5A-11E1-8007-444553540000} 3=Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals 3.GUID={2359E800-5D5A-11E1-8006-444553540000} 6=Digital Switch 2040 6.GUID={13262AB0-5EDC-11E1-8001-444553540000} A=CH Throttle Quadrant USB A.GUID={2359C0F0-5D5A-11E1-8005-444553540000} B=Saitek Pro Flight Yoke B.GUID={2359E800-5D5A-11E1-8007-444553540000} C=Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals C.GUID={2359E800-5D5A-11E1-8006-444553540000} D=Digital Switch 2040 D.GUID={13262AB0-5EDC-11E1-8001-444553540000} E=<< MISSING JOYSTICK >> F=<< MISSING JOYSTICK >> 0=CH Throttle Quadrant USB 0.GUID={2359C0F0-5D5A-11E1-8005-444553540000} [WideServer] WideFSenabled=Yes [sounds] Path=D:\FSX\Sound\ Device1=Primary Sound Driver Device2=Speakers (Creative SB X-Fi) Device3=AMD HDMI Output (AMD High Definition Audio Device) Device4=SPDIF Out (Creative SB X-Fi) [buttons] ButtonRepeat=20,10 1=PE,6,C66056,0 2=UE,6,C66057,0 3=PE,11,C66059,0 4=UE,11,C66060,0 5=PE,9,C66507,0 6=P4,6,C66056,0 7=U4,6,C66057,0 8=P4,7,C66203,0 9=PF,11,C65751,1 10=UF,11,C65751,1 13=PF,4,C66029,0 14=UF,4,C66030,0 15=PB,3,CL2:T,0 16=PB,0,C65752,1 [AutoSave] Next=1 Interval=60 Files=10 SaveOnGround=No AutoSaveEnabled=No [GPSout] GPSoutEnabled=No [GPSout2] GPSoutEnabled=No [Profile.IFLY 737-6] 1=iFly 737-600 (Wide screen) 2=iFly 737-600 Westjet Wide [buttons.IFLY 737-6] 0=PE,8,C65642,0 1=PE,9,C65750,0 2=PE,5,C66072,0 3=UE,5,C66073,0 4=PE,4,C66029,0 5=UE,4,C66030,0 6=PE,2,C66701,1 7=UE,2,C66701,0 8=PE,3,C66237,1 9=UE,3,C66237,0 10=PE,11,C66059,0 11=UE,11,C66060,0 12=PA,6,C66056,0 13=UA,6,C66057,0 14=PA,11,C66059,0 15=UA,11,C66060,0 16=PA,8,K191,8 17=UA,8,K191,9 18=P4,8,C66379,0 19=P4,9,C66052,0 20=U4,9,C66053,0 21=P4,10,C66240,0 22=P4,5,C66072,0 23=U4,5,C66073,0 24=P4,4,C66029,0 25=U4,4,C66030,0 26=PF,1,C66510,0 27=PF,2,C66701,1 28=UF,2,C66701,0 29=PF,3,C66237,1 30=UF,3,C66237,0 31=PF,4,C66029,1 32=UF,4,C66030,0 35=PF,6,C66056,1 36=UF,6,C66057,0 37=PF,7,C66239,1 38=UF,7,C66239,0 39=PF,8,C66379,1 40=UF,8,C66379,0 41=PF,9,C66376,0 42=UF,9,C66376,0 43=PF,10,C66240,1 44=UF,10,C66240,0 45=PF,11,C65751,1 49=PF,5,C65858,0 50=UF,5,C65858,0 51=UF,11,C65751,0 [JoystickCalibration] AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes SepRevsJetsOnly=No ApplyHeloTrim=No UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No FlapsSetControl=0 FlapDetents=No ReverserControl=66292 Reverser1Control=66422 Reverser2Control=66425 Reverser3Control=66428 Reverser4Control=66431 MaxThrottleForReverser=256 AileronTrimControl=66731 RudderTrimControl=66732 CowlFlaps1Control=66162 CowlFlaps2Control=66163 CowlFlaps3Control=66164 CowlFlaps4Control=66165 SteeringTillerControl=0 MaxSteerSpeed=60 1=[Profile.PMDG NGX] 1=Boeing 737-700NGX PMDG House Winglets 2=Boeing 737-724NGX Continental Airlines Winglets [LuaFiles] 1=NGXEFIS_PP_202 2=NGXMCP_PP_202 [Profile.PMDG 737] 1=Boeing 737-700NGX PMDG House 2=Boeing 737-724NGX Continental Airlines Winglets [buttons.PMDG 737] 12=PA,6,C66056,0 13=UA,6,C66057,0 14=PA,11,C66059,0 15=UA,11,C66060,0 16=PA,8,K191,8 17=UA,8,K191,9 18=P4,8,C66379,0 19=P4,9,C66052,0 20=U4,9,C66053,0 21=P4,10,C66240,0 22=P4,5,C66072,0 23=U4,5,C66073,0 24=P4,4,C66029,0 25=U4,4,C66030,0 26=PB,3,CL4:R,0 27=PB,0,C65752,1 28=UB,0,C65752,0 Please note that upon emailing Roar I turned the profiles off at his request but got no results so I turned them back on because I already started sewtting up my Ifly acft Ron

I will insert the smaller files as follows : PLEASE IGNORE THIS SEE LATER POST WITH FSUIPC 4.812c ********* LUA: "NGXEFIS_PP_202" Log [from FSUIPC version 4.80] ********* 92447 System time = 18/04/2012 15:35:56, Simulator time = 17:34:31 (22:34Z) 92447 LUA: beginning "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua" 389504 LUA: ended "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua" 389504 System time = 18/04/2012 15:40:53, Simulator time = 17:34:27 (22:34Z) ********* LUA execution terminated: Log Closed ********* ********* LUA: "NGXEFIS_PP_202" Log [from FSUIPC version 4.80] ********* 428722 System time = 18/04/2012 15:41:32, Simulator time = 17:34:27 (22:34Z) 428722 LUA: beginning "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua" 679822 LUA: ended "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXEFIS_PP_202.lua" 679822 System time = 18/04/2012 15:45:43, Simulator time = 17:34:27 (22:34Z) ********* LUA execution terminated: Log Closed ********* ********* LUA: "NGXMCP_PP_202" Log [from FSUIPC version 4.80] ********* 92447 System time = 18/04/2012 15:35:56, Simulator time = 17:34:31 (22:34Z) 92462 LUA: beginning "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua" 389519 LUA: ended "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua" 389519 System time = 18/04/2012 15:40:53, Simulator time = 17:34:27 (22:34Z) ********* LUA execution terminated: Log Closed ********* ********* LUA: "NGXMCP_PP_202" Log [from FSUIPC version 4.80] ********* 428722 System time = 18/04/2012 15:41:32, Simulator time = 17:34:27 (22:34Z) 428722 LUA: beginning "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua" 679837 LUA: ended "D:\FSX\Modules\NGXMCP_PP_202.lua" 679837 System time = 18/04/2012 15:45:43, Simulator time = 17:34:27 (22:34Z) ********* LUA execution terminated: Log Closed *********

I am having a lot of trouble trying to attach the files there are five of them as follows: Fsuipc.ini Fsuipc.log NGXMCP_202.log NGCEFIS_202.log SIOC.ini When I try to attach them I get a "Server Error" I changed their suffix to .txt in hopes that would work same error. If I cut and paste them it becomes a very long post. Any suggestions ? Ron (aka Granpa)

Okay not to fill the forum with chatter but I meant to say I cannot get them to you until tomorrow. Also Am I to understand that you want me to place the lua file references iin FSUIPC at the top entry in the ini file, right now they are at the end ? Til tomorrow Ron

Okay but sadly due to the time diff, I won't be able to get them to you. To launch the Ifly configuration I use the Opencockpits autoconfig which chooses which configuration I want to launch. I am assuming that this is passing some sort of variable to SIOC or it is just a menu which determine which .ssi file to load. Anyhow I will let you know tomorrow. Thanks for such a rapid response Ron (aka Granpa)

Hello, My name is Ron otherwise known as Granpa. I was directed tothis forum by Roar whom has been helping me get my MCP and Efis working with my PMDG acft. History : 1 checked verions of FSUIPC and SIOC downloaded and installed latest files 2 downloaded the PMDGMCPEFIS from Opencockpits 3 checked file locations and verified they are all in correct places. 4 checked power supplies and USB ports for operation CHecked good 5 ran SIOC monitor and all switches work 6 ran FSX with SIOC and IOCP with IFly acft all okay 7 ran FSX as Admin loaded PMDG acft 8 ran SIOC as admin SIOC loaded and tested MCP and EFIS okay 9 returned to FSX setup FSUIPC to log IPC reads IPC writes, Lua logging 10 set up the 66E variables to write to screen all results were 0x0 11 removed and reinstalled FSUIPC and Sioc no change except I now had to get my IFLY acft working again 12 addes Lua files to FSUIPC ini 13 Added c:\program files\iocards\sioc\pmdgmcpefis.ssi (renamed by me from ngxmcpefis_pp_202.ssi) as mentioned above it loads and I can test the panels with SIOC Monitor As I informed Roar and Alejandro (Opencockpits) I am totally lost, so,I dialed back to the beginning of this forum and and scanned the emails and tried just about everything I saw as options, I am willing to load my ?ini, .ssi, log files if it will shed light on this. My FSX setup D: Fsx Fsuipc is in d:FSX\Modules Lua files are in FSX\Modules Sioc is in c:\program files\iocards\sioc SIOC files are in same directory as SIOC.exe I do have acceleration installed I removed any UAC and run everything as admin I made sure I had all permissions to all affected directories I have to admit that I am a little aprehensive about loosing my IFly setting so I perform backup after backup just in case I loose those settings PART of history again To get my Ifly acft working OC worked with me until I got to the point of determining that the problem had to be my hardware and Windows setup so I installed a new hard drive and a new purchesed copy of Windows 7 , yep installed all of FSX and acft, then installed Opencockpits SIOC and Ifly SSI files along with IOCP and yes it was extreme but it did work. i don't think I want to go through that extreme again. Gentlemen I am at your mercy anything you can suggest and any info I can provide just let me know, I am sure I will learn something from all of this , meanwhile I will continue reading the history of this forum and see if there is anything I can glean from your previous posts. Ron (aka Granpa)