3mta3

Back to the gear issue - RE: extending above 250 kts. I did a test flight and the problem is related to the "Aircraft Stress Causes Damage" checkbox. If the box is checked - the gear will not deploy until less than 250kts, regardless of when you throw the handle. If you uncheck the box - the gear extends at any speed you choose to deploy it. As we know that aicraft limits are 270/.82 extend/ 320/.82 extended/ 235 retract. Glad we figured that one out. And regarding the fuel flows in reverse - I misstated the fact that the numbers reverse or go negative. At max reverse fuel flows decrease to 630lbs/hr/eng and coming out of reverse they quickly jump up to over 3000lbs/hr/eng. So this is most likely a real bug in the NGX where fuel flow is tied to thrust in some way. I tried again the manual pressurization and you cannot get the cabin to pressurize on the ground - in flight it works and you can pressurize up to the max diff relief valve and then it "bounces" on that pressure - but on the ground - it should have the same behavior. Those of you that have flown the classic and forgotten to flip the air/ground switch will know what this feels like! I used to crack my window and slowly bleed out the pressure before flipping it to ground (the one time I forgot it :blink:), to not pop everyone's ears when the main cabin door was opened! Forgot to recheck the FMC prog page issue - but still think it doesn't jump from PROG 3-2-1, etc, instead jumps to other pages when previous page is hit. jRock

I will give this a try - however I think I did have that box set so "aircraft stress causes damage" - and the gear didn't come down when I extended it at 270kts - so it seems as a "test flight" is in my future. I have, however, recently changed that setting because I had more than one flight ruined as the aircraft was 'overstressed" from a REX weather update in cruise flight causing the airspeed to jump well overspeed "crashing" the flight. Uggh, so to prevent that from happening I went in and cleared that box (aircraft stress causes damage), as I don't typically do acro in the NGX!. Exactly. I'm probably like most of you hoping there was no crew involvment in that flight disappearance. When I first saw his home sim setup I was a little envious, and immediately assumed that a guy with that much passion for aviation couldn't possibly have anything to do with taking the jet.

I couldn't agree more with this point. Sometimes on the line you see some very poor examples of "professional" pilots. That is why the fleet newsletters read like they are written for a 5th grader, reminding them to respect the VLO which is placarded right by the gear handle. And training is dumbed down for this reason as well. I suspect that many of you are more knowledgeable about some aspects of the NG than the unmotivated seat warmer sitting in the jet 80hours a month - following the magenta line to his next destination as he reads the newspaper. Currently I am flying real world very little, much less than I need to stay proficient, legalities aside. I discovered the NGX from a friend and found the simulation accurate enough, and the FMC behavior acceptable enough to use to "keep my mind in the game." I have a world Jepp subscription on my iPad, and am amazed that I can use current charts and a current Airac in a home simulation. I have renewed my sim hobby that has progressed to amazing levels since I last tried it and was soon frustrated by the crappy instruments, inability to properly trim the aircraft and outdated nav database. Now another coworker has built a similar triple monitor setup like I have and we all are doing a little "flying" between our infrequent real flights. I've also found this setup great to scout a new destination, recently had a trip to Brazil, and did a bunch of NGX flying there before leaving - felt like a local when I actually flew down there in the jet. Anyway, guys keep simming - and those of you with the passion - we are going to need people like you to fly these jets - most of us currently doing it will be retired in the next 20 years. Jon Rock

Thanks Ralgh and scandinavian - that was the feedback I was looking for. I will submit tickets on all except the trim, as I couldn't remember if that was actual aircraft behavior or not. And yes I have flown the actual jet, 737-300,-400,-500 and -700, approx 3000 hours - but it has been a while, so my memory is a little rusty on some things. J Rock

Yes that's a good one. Heard this one, "Mexicana 285 you were assigned to cross Alter at 17000" Mexicana comes back, " eh, sometimes we make it and sometimes we don't". Or everyone is holding one day, then Mexicana checks in and is immediately cleared direct the airport. United 485 comes up the freq and asks why Mexicana is cleared right in and we are all holding? ATC comes back and says, "believe me United, you don't want to be up there holding with those guys" Or the time on ground. "Everyone on this freq, hold your current position - Mexicana is moving and we aren't talking to them," Well, they aren't really jokes. And yes, I'm aware 3 to 1 is a wag.

The way I do plan descents to airports with no vertical STAR, is 30nm at 10000/250kts. Some may recognize this as the 3 to 1 rule. Anyway I always back up my descent planning with a 3 to 1 computation . You will find that the FMC is aggressive. It would rather default to adding drag than adding thrust. Which of course is the most cost effective solution. The spoilers are more effective in the NGX sim than in the jet. Believe me, with the longer wing of the NG vs classic, your first few approaches are scrambles to get down. Hence you reach for the gear which can be deployed at 270 kts, vs the spoilers which aren't all that effective and rumble quite a bit. A heavy 73 at idle 250kts will barely crack 1000fpm in descent, you may get another 150fpm with spoilers. Now you find yourself getting behind the profile and are given a 210 kt restriction by ATC. Guess what, if you don't act quickly you are going to be way high. What do most do? Grab the gear handle. A recent 737 fleet newsletter stated "We all agree that dropping the gear makes a great “speed brake” at times, just make sure the speed is below 270 knots.

I guess I'm just along for the ride and can't change the selected speed, hit speed intervention or turn off the auto throttle. Yes you can indeed slow down with the gear. You guys ever hear of "Children of the Magenta"? Google that. Check YouTube, it used to be up there. Often when flying jets, the best solution is "click, click"' auto throttles/autopilot off, and just fly her like the big 182 she is. "I also wanna point out that extending the landing gear in order to slow the aircraft down is a symptom of DEFICIENT ENERGY MANAGEMENT. Maybe on an extremely rare occasion in which wind changes inadvertently, ATC assigns a new runway that's close to the present position etc... then it "might" be justified. But being forced to extending the gear for slowing doing just forecasts that the approach has very high odds of ending up unstabilized." Actually by configuring early, you have a much greater chance of being stabilized than if you do - I'm guessing here - drag the spoilers - throw out the flaps at limit speeds and the wait until when exactly to extend the gear? Anyway guys. Love the discussion. Very reasoned responses. But yeah, real live airline pilots use the gear when they need to - and don't "save" it to be extended at the last possible second.

Sorry to disagree but you are not stressing the gear by operating within the certified limits. If it can handle a MGW landing, it sure can handle the low stress of being extended at 270kts. Then you may accelerate with them extended to 320./.82 Mach. All while not stressing the gear the slightest. You can do gear down and pinned ferry flights no problem. Just plan for increased fuel burn - maybe the chart is even in the manual. I manage my vertical profile just fine, but the gear is there when you need it, and it's free. A 360 will cost you time and fuel, and good luck with that on the expressway visual into LGA, or anywhere - someone is always 5 in trail. You guys shouldn't be so fearful of the gear as brakes concept. I bet with 3000 + guppies in the air - right now - somebody is throwing down that big lever to get down at this very moment. Anyway this was about the fact the gear doesn't deploy as it should - whenever the handle is lowered. Regardless of speed. Jon Rock

Or throw out the gear!

Bogdanmisko is correct, it's all in the manuals provided with the NGX. Thanks for pointing that out, didn't realize it was all in there! Looks like I mostly remembered how we did the touch and go's correctly per the manuals. After looking at the profile it reminded me that we did indeed stand up the power, and once aircraft was reconfigured and check airman said ready - advanced to GA N1. I also seem to remember that as the flaps tracked from F30 to F15 the takeoff warning horn is going off, which would be normal for the condition of power up and flaps not in takeoff position.

Well the speed brakes are mostly a rumble maker in the jet, not real effective. The landing gear as speed brakes is the most effective way to slow down and still keep a descent rate going. As far as staying ahead of the jet, yes, in a perfect world we shouldn't have to do this. But there are many times when you need to scrub some energy and get configured. The landing gear - work well for this. Btw - when was the last time you have NOT seen "drag required" on a VNAV descent in the NGX? Anyway - regardless of technique - gear should operate in the NGX at any speed. It may have doors ripped off real world, but I don't know why it doesn't depoly until 250 knots.

I've done touch and go's in -400's but not a NG. I do seem to remember he reselected landing speeds each time in the FMC - but I was sort of busy flying the jet. On the -400 we had a big ole airspeed indicator with manual speed bugs that I seem to remember mostly using. I don't recall using the autopilot at all during the patterns. Anyway, if I remember correctly, the check airman would arm the spoliers - so we could go through the landing check - "armed - green light", then he would stow them so they wouldn't deploy during the touch and go. We briefed no reversers - obviously - and no autobrakes. Upon main gear touchdown after I flew the nose to the ground - check airman repositioned the flaps to F15, and trimmed the stabilzer slightly nose down I believe. When he said ready - I advanced power to our briefed go around N1 - and we rotated and climbed out on our briefed speeds. It was really quite fun and I have a video of it from my training partner who was sititng in my jumpseat. Really a blast. What was really neat, was flying around with the cockpit door open. I was new to jets and this was by far the biggest aircraft I had ever flown. Check airman tapped me on the shoulder and said "look back there - there is a lot of jet following you around". Pretty cool to look back and see all those rows of seats flying along behind us. Of course up front it feels really not that much different than any other airplane. You just have to remind yourself that there is a lot of airplane following you around!

Here are a few things I've noticed about the NGX, anyone have any comments? VLO is 270 kts - yet if I put the gear lever down at this speed - nothing happens until 250kts, then gear auto deploys. Nice it respects the flap speed limits - but hey - sometimes I need those rollers for the big old airbrakes that they are! Fuel Flow reverses when engines are in reverse - yep - you can make fuel going into reverse. I haven't actually noticed if fuel comes back into the tank - but the FF numbers on engine instruments sure go negative. Manual pressurization - go ahead and close the outflow valve manually, with doors closed and a bleed source cabin should pressurize, in fact mx sometimes does this on the ground to check the pressurization system - however when I tried it - no luck. I also seem to remember to have seen a problem on the PROG pages - if you hit previous page it cycles through other FMC pages - it doesn't go from PROG 4 to 1 like it should. Trim doesn't move to Full nose down with the flaps up. When you extend the flaps trim moves all the way to full nose down - but with flaps up - trim stops at the green band limit - if I remember correctly. I guess I will put all of this in the log and call mx control ^_^

I'm guessing you have a "Off Schedule Descent" amber illuminating? Hit recall and look at AC panel and it is probably illuminated. This occurs when you begin descent before reaching the cruise altitude set in the pressurization FLT ALT window. You can cancel this light by setting any altitude lower than your current altitude in FLT ALT. If I remember correctly the pressurization system "cruise" relay trips based on this setting - changing pressurization from a proportional climb schedule to a constant altitude mode - (lowest allowable cablin altitude respecting max differential - which varies slightly at different alitudes )to avoid pressure bumps during cruise flight. If you start descending before reaching the cruise altitude set in the window, the system assumes you are doing a emergency return, and starts returning the cabin pressure to the takeoff field elevation.

A technique I have grown found of is to use VNAV - it will automate much of the accelerate/cleanup and you don't have to keep messing with the bug speeds. It will command FD pitch for the next flap maneuver speed as you retract on schedule. Select VNAV on ground before selcting TOGA, and it will be in the FMA as a white - standby pitch mode. It becomes active mode at 400ft. For smoother VNAV speed transitions, I like to set my VM0 (vref 40+70)in line L2 on the VNAV climb page - TGT Speed. Then, when you are ready to accelerate above this speed - just hit ECON and the normal climb speed profile resumes.