Hello PMDG!May I first congratulate you on the release, and say that I'm happy I bought the bird. Purchase was a no-brainer, even though the purchasing form instructed me to fill AT LEAST 5 letters in the "Billing city" -field. Well, I live in Oulu (LOL!), so from now on I live in Oulux instead ... Installation was a breeze as well. Everything in the "computer preflight" was easy and quick to do.Now to the business.First the positives:- I find the FDE _so easy_ to fly by hand. Makes me wonder if the real bird in fact is this stable. The 757 level-D was nowhere near this stable and "gentle" as this. Gotta trust PMDG tho :).- The overall feel of the aircraft is superb, also the visual model is stunning- + all the obvious stuff ! ;). There are a lot of buttons and stuff, so realism freaks like me WILL appreciate this packageNow on to the stuff that cause me to ???? For the record, this list might and does have things that are there due to my bad knowledge about some of the stuff on the 737NG, so forgive me those, please :).1. The flip switches obviously work in a manner, that whenever the flip is open, the switch inside is turned OFF automatically, right ? If not so, then I wonder why I can't access the swithces inside the flips at all :). Go ahead, laugh.. this was just the first time I've seen anything like this done before.2. Alternate Flaps switch experiences some kind of delay when operating, is this normal ?3. Isolation Valve switches only have one direction of operating, ie. I can only move the sequence in one direction, thus if I'm in position 3, I have to move via position 1 to get to position 2. Why isn't there a possibility to move the switches in two directions. Obviously you don't use the switches like that in the real aircraft. (through a non-desired position that is)4. Apu Bleed switch doesn't move at all when APU is not operative. Is this also the case IRL ?5. Window heat switches seem to also be "jammed" until the aircraft is powered properly, I'm not sure but I think they needed the engines running to move. Why ?6. The hand that indicates that a movable switch is under it, is a bit misleading. There's a + -sign even if there's only ONE spot where to operate the SW. I think the + and - signs should appear only if the switch can be moved into two different directions. If there's only one click spot for the switch, the hand should appear without any signs on it.7. In the overhead bitmap the texts LOGO, POSITION and RWY TURNOFF are twisted a bit ? Is it my display adapter, or the case in the real a/c ? Or a "bug" ?8. The RMI seems a bit blurry, the scale that is. 9. FMC IRS POS entry. I couldn't enter the IRS position in the format that the empty boxes indicate (the same style as in 767PIC). Only after I entered the REF AIRPORT and got coordinates (which were wrong for the gate I was standing) and then copied them through the LSK to the IRS POS field, I was able to get the FMC to accept my entry. Do we need the degree-character to enter the IRS position, and if so, where is it to be found ?10. Spoilers cannot be moved on the ground at all. I have the spoilers mapped to my CH Yoke, and in the air there seems to be only the three positions in which the handle can be set, even though I have a lever configured for it (works in PIC). Also, when I used the lever to select full spoilers (yup, no flight setting), I couldn't get them up anymore with the lever, and had to press "*" on the keyboard instead.11. f/d operation on takeoff and intial climb is very odd. I didn't seem to get the V2+15-25 command, it just wanted me to pull the nose quite up all the time. It seemed totally erratic on takeoff, and had I done what it told me to, I would've been in trouble.12. f/d corsshairs are very thin, if it's the case in the real-life jet, ok. They're just a bit hard to follow in the main panel. Yes, I know there's the zoomed panel, but I don't want to be switching from view to view all the time.13. The RMI needle operation seems to be faster than light. Does the needle really move in a fraction of the second when the source is selected from the knob ?14. If one selects a RWY for arrival in the FMC, one cannot MOVE the RWY -waypoint UP in the legs page, like one can do with ordinary waypoints (ie. skip a wpt in between). It says "not in database". This should work. It can be achieved by deleting the desired waypoint, to move the RWY-waypoint up, but I think the other way should work as well.15. VNAV levels the aircraft at FL100 for decceleration to 250 (which is the limit). Does the real plane do this also ? I suspect it does. I just decided to mention this, as the 757/767 does this differently, ie. no level offs at FL100, but a deceleration with continuous descent from FL110 ->.16. When one selects an MCP altitude different than the VNAV CRZ altitude in the FMC, the FMA still indicates VNAV PT rather than ALT HOLD when arriving at the MCP altitude. Is this right ? 17. If the aircraft for some reason drifts above the VNAV CRZ altitude, it will not descend back to the assigned altitude even if VNAV is engaged (VNAV PT annunciated), but stays on the wrong altitude, no matter what. One has to use V/S or LVL CHG to get back to the correct cruising altitude. 18. The throttle movement in A/T modes is sometimes excessive. The throttles move back and forth pretty much, no delicate adjustments, but rather abrupt and large movements. It isn't this rude IRL.19. The pressurization is partially modelled, but why aren't the displays modelled ? Kind of takes the whole meaning away, doesn't it ?20. The GPWS callout "ten" during landing is obviously very wrong or I'm just ignorant. It calls "ten" when the wheels take contact. After landing the RA indicates "10" on the ground. In my past experience "ten" meant ten feel AGL, not ten centimeters AGL. What is amiss ?21. Where is IDLE TAXI ? Even entirely empty (no pax or cargo) aircraft with 20% fuel, required a good 40% n1 thrust to even move.22. I had serious problems on a test flight from EFHK to ESSA with the ILS receiver. It didn't find any signal. This was the first time with any FS aircraft that it didn't find the signal. I tried all the runways, and even had both NAV's tuned to the same freq. On a previous flight from EFHK to EFTP the ILS worked fine. I wonder what was going on there.Okay, I'd like some feedback on these when you have time. I have to say that I maybe was a bit disappointed to find so many questions with the aircraft, but I also realize that much of these HAVE to be something that I JUST DON'T KNOW about. And I'd like you to prove me right. :=) Otherwise, something to think about.Best regards Tero Partanen

TonyI would like to second your comments (except for the FMC, which I havent used yet) One other point.With heading select set any course change of more than about 10 degrees has the a/c banking like a Spitfire!I in fact found the whole a/p behaves very strangely. Often I set an ALT and set a VS and the a/c would climb and then level at a completely different alt to the one set (all this below 10000 feet.)Agree 100% about the ground power settings. It is incredible the amount of power required just to get it moving and keep it moving. Not correct at all.I beta test a lot of FS releases (DF737-400 & C-310) FFS, MAAM-SIM B-25, Dash 7 and AC 520/560 etc) and it seems to me that the Beta testing on this product was very sub-standard, expecially when I compare it to the test programme we are currently giving the Dreamfleet C-310. RegardsTim Westnutt

Tero,Your observations are very interesting. I also I'm curious as to what the answers are to these very good questions.Regards,jack noullet

Tim,please refrain from criticizing our beta test in such a manner without being aware of the actual procedure that was conducted.Our beta team consisted of 18 individuals (737NG type rated pilots, airline dispatchers, real Flight Simmers, etc.) and tested the plane for over 4 weeks.It is rather rude to call their work sub-standard without actually knowing how busy they have been.Some of the issues you have mentioned are FS limitations and others may be user-induced. We will check everything out.Sincerely,

interesting listi'ld like to extend this list too- APU cannot be turned off- OH panel light / circuit breaker light control lost ;)- dome light switch missing => sold to Airbus :D- background light control misssing. - Logo light always on, eve if switch is turned OFF- IRS panel gauge is missingthis are basic things and not really flight logic things. i wonder which beta tester has teste the light control. he should get a price.i expect this to be fixed in some sort of a hot fix 1. furthermore as a paying customer i expect, that you announce a date when my product becomes fixed. thats part of any warranty for purchased products.this product is not working as it should for US$40 and such a large beta phase.

MarcI appreciate your prompt reply.Perhaps the phrase "sub-standard" was badly used. As I said, I am a beta tester myself on many commercial projects and believe me I do know how much work is involved. I have also been involved long enough to see when a product is released before it is fully ready. I don't doubt that you have your own commercial reasons for this decision and don't get me wrong, I can see that your product has the potential to be one of the best commercial releases for FS2002/2004.But are you seriously maintaining that you believe that this product was as ready as it could possibly be before being released onto the market? Also if as you say, some of the issues are FS2002 related then perhaps it would have been prudent to at least have waited until the manual was ready to explain things like that.I don't want to start a war with you Marc, I have supported you by giving you $40 for your product. Furthermore I am not asking for my money back! I will also continue to support your products in the future because I believe in what you are trying to do. I just think that in this case more testing and ironing out of the "issues" should have been undertaken prior to release thats all.Best regardsTim

>- IRS panel gauge is missingI can say with certainty that the IRS gauge has been mentioned before; it is not in the 600/700 release, but will be released with the 800/900.

Martin,if you continue this attitude towards our support, we will be unable to offer you any personal assistance.Please consider your wording in the future. We do intend to solve all outstanding issues.Sincerely,

Tim,I do not intend to start any wars either, after all - wars are never very productive anyway. By representing PMDG here, I'm trying to work out a productive solution to the problems you have mentioned.I personally believe that the product was ready to be released, because even though I am not the lead developer, I push the buttons that make the company homepage display the release/purchase information. I would not have done so if I had felt the product was not market-ready.Now- because you are a beta tester, you will agree with me that no software is perfect. FS2002 wasn't perfect, there was no patch for it. Even some of the software you tested, I experienced major problems with, where I was wondering how it could be released in this state. But that's another story, I don't usually express my frustrations, I appreciate the work developers put into a product and enjoy the fruits of their labor.As you have noticed, the 737TNG is not perfect and it will require some issues to be patched. Why do I think it was market ready? Because I have flown several flights with the release version and had no problems at all, except for one minor detail that was fixed before release. The product is market ready in my opinion, and if you browse around the download problem messages, you will notice a lot of positive feedback, with many individuals stating that the 737TNG has reached PIC level. It is very satisfying for our developers to hear this and further encourages us to improve the product.Now, do you honestly believe that the mentioned issues prevent the aircraft from being used properly? I know this partially does not go beyond personal opinions, but issues like taxi thrust for example can not be compensated for. Perhaps you should focus a bit more on the positive aspects of the product, try a full autoland and you will be convinced why I am so confident in this product.As I said before, we are taking note of all the reported issues and have already started solving them.I appreciate your calm attitude towards the reported problems.Sincerely,

I think we need to see more troubleshooting info i.e. system specs background apps running, etc. As a line mech for a commuter airline, I come close to ringing some pilots neck on almost a weekly bases for lack of info when trying to get the a/c off the gate.:-mad

As a beta tester here I will respond. For one buddy, we have more than a couple of real world NG drivers on the beta team plus hard core simmers who KNOW that one must have the generators working *ON* for the AP to function right(just to give you an idea of a NON PROBLEM BROUGHT UP BECAUSE OF LACK OF KNOWLEGE OF THE REAL 737 NG) and I see this type of logic spred all through the forum. I have spent endless hours flying PIC 767 and you can ask anyone including Tero that I KNOW what I am doing and so does the rest of the team. I will not respond to *missing light switches etc* but real issues and yes many need to RTFM. Plain facts, but *SOME* have little if any idea on how to operate a real 737 NG and even if you have CBTs (I have all made including SWA) if you don't know that there have been MANY updates like with the FMC U10 you might get the WRONG idea that there is somthing wrong. There is NO IRS panel YET (Coming 800-900). All you need to do is LSK1 for the proper posistion, click into the strachpad then to the boxes.THe VNAV issue is being addressed, untill then please refer to the anchored post.Tero, you need to use some real world manuals that I have and you will see that most if not all you mention will go away. Email me and I will send them to you friend. It's not like the 767 in many respects and without the right manuals how would you know for sure? As to the flight model, it is on the NUMBERS, if the AP seems a bit odd to you that might be because such a correct model has never been this close to the real thing as to cause some to question. Please spend some time checking against real world data, you will be amazed at how much it does replicate the NG! We have worked non stop on all this, with the team fixing real issues and feel that one could work forever to have a product PERFECT in every respect. I have found only two real concerns so far on the forum and even these are being addressed.[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Who's Buddy?

Dear Tim :>>With heading select set any course change of more than about>10 degrees has the a/c banking like a Spitfire!>And so it should be (check Bill Bulfer's book if you come across it).>>I in fact found the whole a/p behaves very strangely. Often I>set an ALT and set a VS and the a/c would climb and then level>at a completely different alt to the one set (all this below>10000 feet.)>What ? Example ?>>Agree 100% about the ground power settings. It is incredible>the amount of power required just to get it moving and keep it>moving. Not correct at all.>Nope not at all. Executive decision on the principles of minimum loss. 39% will give you 15 knots GS or so. Good news is that MS said this would be fixed in FS2K4 i.e. one can model taxi thrust without screwing up the whole idle-descend profile..."sub-standard"Well yes ofcourse we just had *only* about 60000+ hour 737 collective experience to probe for beta-testing. The sub-standard beta testing usually included repetition of a drill on a class D-sim using our product. Not withstanding comments like fuelflow should be 25 lbs/hr less or t/o trim should be 5 1/2 not 5 3/4 on take-off and such. I am sure everybody else pays this much attention to detail. Please be careful. I am a developer here but a customer everywhere else. That's why I usually find myself editing dynamics of many such "carefully tested" models (after I bought them ofcourse) since they sometimes bare no semblance to DATA, as released for example by BOEING Inc., rather than FS acquired perceptions.Hence, I know exactly what you mean and I want to assure you that we do care very very very much. Thanks for your comments,Vangelis======================================= E. M. Vaos Precision Manuals Development Group www.precisionmanuals.com=======================================

You need to sign you name to you post if you wish to post in this forum or get any help as the forum guidelines. Thank you. I was refering to Tero...[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Randy,You know, I've said my piece and reported my problems, and I'm now trying to bite my tounge on this forum. However, I find your attitude completely and UTTERLY disturbing. As a fairly vocal beta tester I think you'd be a little bit more polite to people as your rants can be construed to represent PMDG.This guy paid $40.00 for this add-on and weather his opinions are right or wrong he certinally doesn't diserve to have them addressed like this. He DEFINATELY doesn't diserve to have beta testers referring to him as "buddy" and talking to him like he's an idiot because he doesn't know as much about jet transport simulation as them.Also, when you say people should RTFM I hope that doesn't imply something along the lines of "Read The Friendly Manual". I'm sure that everyone will be delighted to read it when it becomes available, but unfortunately it has not been included with the product.It's just my opinion, (well, I hope not JUST mine) but I think you should try to be a little bit more polite to people. This isn't the 767 PIC forum, these are PMDG's recently purchasing customers you're yelling at. After buying an add-on that costs nearly as much as the base simulator and having it do things like nose-dive out of the sky at T/D, I think people should be expected to be a little frustrated. It's great that you've helped to beta test this add-on and make it as good as it is, (minus the nose-dives) but that's not a license to treat people that way.-Shaun