Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Jeff Nielsen

Trivial I'm sure but..

Recommended Posts

Since I'm only SEL certified in the real world I won't feel so bad about asking this one.On the FMC; after the STAR shouldn't the next waypoint be the FAF for the ILS if you have that selected in the arrival?Thanks in advance :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Guest wee_davie_2612

Hey Jeff,Not necessarily, many STAR's (especially over here in the UK) terminate at a hold point commonly many miles from the airport. From there you are radar vectored (or sometimes a standard procedure may be used i.e. a VOR app) to the approach intercept.CheersDavid

Share this post


Link to post

Randy,While programming the FMC through the CDU, you go to the DEP/ARR page and select your DP and arrival. You select the STAR and RWY or vice versa I should say. While flying, the FMC displays the route on the ND (all waypoint, even holds, etc at the Missed Approach). When you are at the last waypoint of the STAR (Arrival) shouldn't the next waypoint be the start of the ILS for the RWY selected, or the Final Approach Fix (FAF). I've tried twice at PHX and it just ends at the airport (as far as I can see). Now I wonder if it is because I when leaving vegas the SID ending waypoint (or transition) is the same as the start of the STAR for PHX. I wouldn't think so.Hope this helps..lol. Sorry I couldn't be clearer. Maybe a landline might help rather than this typing.

Share this post


Link to post

Yes I understand about radar vectors and such, but the aircraft doesn't know that. All it knows is that the STAR ends and the ILS begins as far as I'm aware. So I would think that where the STAR leaves off there should be a line (so to speak) to the IAF if you have an ILS selected.Thanks for the comments so far guys.

Share this post


Link to post

Take my standard route into LAX on the SADDE6 -AVE TRANS arrival, it certainly does not end at the FAF, the FAF is ROMEN. In this case I select RWY 24R via the DENAY trans then connect the DISCO between the end of the arr trans which is JAVSI include COVIN then connect it to DENAY. [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

Share this post


Link to post

Ok, Sadde6-Avenal Transistion. Flown that one in real life..lolAm I missing a keypress somewhere on the PMDG CDU then? It doesn't matter where (or how far the star ends from) and the FAF begins as long as the aircraft get's there. Correct? I guess what I'm asking is; shouldn't the aircraft be able to be "auto-flown" all the way down the approach from the time you took off (SID-ENR-STAR) and engaged the auto pilot?

Share this post


Link to post

Hi>I guess what I'm asking is; shouldn't the aircraft be able to >be "auto-flown" all the way down the approach from the time you took >off (SID-ENR-STAR) and engaged the auto pilot?I may be totally wrong here but what you are saying is only valid if the terminal procedures allow that. Many STARs in Sweden at least at ESSA does not end at the FAF. On the other hand there are STARs that do allow you to fly down to touch down. See ESMS STARs for a good example.I guess it all boils down to the type of ATC and procedures used.Cheers,

Share this post


Link to post

Matt,Thanks for the response, but let me clarify again. It doesn't really matter where the STAR ends (as far as I'm aware. thats not the approach). I would think that the FMC would calculate a route from the end of the STAR to the beginning of the FAF for the approach. Now for Vegas to Phoenix the STAR kinda comes down from the North and almost cuts the airport in half at it's endpoint. I wonder if it's just not able to calculate a sorta downwind leg, then base to the FAF. I thought it would. I know you usually select a STAR the fits the appropriate runway for your direction-from and landing direction (or as published or vectored by ATC)

Share this post


Link to post

Yes. But for the purpose of showing what it can do let's look closer at my flight KSJC-KLAX I start out at KSJC @ 12R (LNAV at 400') hand fly till 3000' BUG SPEED flaps UP thence VNAV departure on the MOONY2 AVE TRANS then SADDE6 AVE TRANS and add COVIN right after JAVSI (DISCO for ILS 254R TRANS of DENAY) this gives me more time to slow and get stable on final. I ride VNAV (well not always but an example here) (LOC kicks in soon after the turn on *249) all the way to G/S @ 2200' intercept- I then click the second A/P at at 1500 RA it kicks in and SINGLE CH is removed and down I come. Now you CAN fly VNAV all the way down to the runway but will save that one for another day ;). Of course I think it is very RARE to use the flight systems in this manner beeing that most ATC guys vector you all over kingdom come with restrictions etc it is easier to MCP it than to reprogram the FMC but *not always*. EDIT " I would think that the FMC would calculate a route from the end of the STAR to the beginning of the FAF for the approach" Actually the FMC calculates from the E/D = End of Descent POINT up backwards. [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

Share this post


Link to post

I get what you're saying. Normally the points between the end of the STAR and the FAF would probably be "MCP" flown. My question is I think the route shown on the ND should still calc your route between the above mentioned legs for autoflight purposes. Maybe this isn't the case with the 737's. Theoretically you should be able to auto-flight the aircraft from 500' above your takeoff airport all the way down to an autoland at your destination (if so certified and/or equiped).

Share this post


Link to post

Yes it does in fact do that very thing, look at the deviation guide on the ND on your descent, this is deviation for the E/D so yes you CAN follow that but that also takes into account restrictions and level off defined on the charts (if programed corrected in the procedures) but even if you go VNAV on a rwy (not an ILS) you will still need ot land manually and flare. There are many ways to fly an approach and this bird does them all. If the real bird does it so does this, not many you can say that about ;-) so my point is whatever you learn from real 737NG AOMS etc you can put this puppy to the test! [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

Share this post


Link to post

Actually all I want to do is be able to LNAV to the IAF. Anyways here's a video of the slected route. Sorry about the quality. Windows movie maker doesn't render worth a ****. Tell me what you think. You'll be able to quickly figure out whats going on here. Notice the magenta route line extends well beyond to the east.I'll let you go after this. Thanks again. :-)http://www.onlinesimulationsolutions.com/pmdg_0001.wmv

Share this post


Link to post

Oh Jeff one note on your DU configuation, there are no NGs with the PFD and compact EICAs the way you have it. For a realistic combo checkout the West Jet config from the PMDG/STYLES/AIRLINE SELECTION ;)[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

Share this post


Link to post

Ok here this looks much BETTER ;-) KLAS-25R-COWBY1.DRK-COYOT1.DRK-"FIXAR TRANS" 25L-KPHX Just CONNECT the DISCON between MAHEM and FIXAR by typing FIXAR into the box prompt. Now your departure should look like this (see pic) on the ND. http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/73443.jpg [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

Share this post


Link to post
Guest hnorgaar

How about telling the guy to remove the disco between the the last waypoint and the STAR (IAF). After insertion of the star go back to the waypoints page and be sure you dont have any discos there.Hope this helpsHenrik

Share this post


Link to post

I've tried that also guys.Randy...I have no problems with the DP btw, just the end of the STAR and the IAF.Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Buck Bolduc

Anoyher way that I found that works to remove a disco. Sometimes I just hit the delete key on the fmc, "DELETE" appeares in the scratchpad, then hit the LSK with the disco.Regards

Share this post


Link to post

I'll try again tonight. I have a feeling that it's going to a waypoint that's not the IAF but one that's closer in like the FAF.Thanks to all :-)

Share this post


Link to post

Hi there.I am not familiar with the airport at all, but I had a quick look into the charts for the COYOT1 star and the IAP for ILS25L. The STAR chart state that ".... From over BRUSR INT via PXR R-336 to PXR VORTAC. After BRUSR INT, expect radar vectors to final approach course."Also from what I can see the PXR VOR is located just about at the MAP point to rwy 27. In the IAP for 27L there's no transition either from PXR to the IAF point, so I guess the approach is based on the heading to PXR and then radar vectors, as stated, BEFORE you reach the PXR VOR. Maybe you could try another STAR that will match the app to 25L? Or you can cheat a little here, and make a fix in the FMC on the trk to PXR....say 15NM before PXR(as a radar vector to IAF) Then delete the PXR. Maybe some more fixes to make a smooth transition, just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post

Jeff, Maybe I was not clear enough, I gave you the last leg. Load your route but after selection of the rwy CHOOSE the FIXAR TRANSITION. Then all you need to do is close the discon beween MAYHEM and FIXAR by simply placing FIXAR into the BOXES on the LEGS page! Review it it has a great turn to final all in vnav and you will hit LOC perfectly ;)[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

Share this post


Link to post
Guest N401SS

If you're still having trouble with making the FMC calculate your route properly, I strongly suggest you check out the Advanced Tutorial on the PMDG site. It will walk you through how to program the FMC to do exactly what you're trying to do; sometimes it's easier and more effective to learn on your own then have someone tell you how to do it on a case-by-case basis. :(Nick

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  
×
×
  • Create New...