This may sound like an elementary question, but it has been bugging me for a while. I mostly fly the 700, and have always had a great experience.A few times, after planning my IFR flight plan with FS, I have arrived at my destination to find that I have been cleared for a visual approach rather than IFR due to wind. I know this is normal, but what I'm unclear on is the proper procedure to make sure I setup my approach properly.Here's one of my examples:I planned a flight from PHNL (Honolulu) to PHTO (Hilo). The flight level was 16000.Upon contacting appproach, I was cleared for the visual runway 8 (due to wind) (tricky approach due to the sloping elevation). Of course, when approach hands you off, they ask you to report rwy in sight. Once I reply that I have rwy in sight, I'm cleared for landing. The only problem, is that I'm way too high (ATC never gave me altitude changes properly after clearing me for the visual approach. It's like they say ok, since you see the rwy, land, and by the way, decend to 2000 from 9000 in 3 miles!!This only happens when a regularly scheduled IFR flight gets cleared as a visual approach.I guess what I'm asking is what is the correct procedure (in the real and MS world) when this happens? Should I be adjusting my altitude without their instruction / approval? Is MS just not doing it right?This is one of those annoying things that can make an otherwise great flight turn out ugly for me until I learn what the proper thing to do is. My IFR approaches go great!Any help would be very much appreciated.Thanks!John Drago

Once you're cleared for a visual approach to a runway, you're on your own - descend, turn, whatever you need to do to line up and land. Unless ATC gives you different instructions, you are visual, and you can change speed, altitude, and direction at your discretion.

That includes using the localizer glide slope to get a feel for it :)

In real life ATC will never clear you for a visual approach unless you ask for it, they are not allowed to impose it on you.So in the real thing you won`t request a visual unless you`re comfortable with altitude, speed and distance. And of course, that you see the bl**dy airport.Cheers,Kjell.Edit to add:The definition of a visual approach is: An instrument approach where all, or part of, the navigation is done with visual reference to the sorrounding terrain.

You could also check the procedures on the charts for the airfield for visual approach, and if there isn't one, use basic reference points from the NDB or VOR approaches. Distances, altitudes and so on. Whether you are visual or ILS you should be somewhere in the same profile and vicinity.** EDIT **And.. when you are within the inner circle around the airport you should be within ALT limits, and pretty much have the circle to yourself. So plan to arrive in the 15 or 20 nm circle at the approach altitude. If in doubt with the AI ATC, use the "No Radar" or "Non Contact" approach plate procedures. This is as far as I know the right way even IRL, if ATC sounds like a radio hacker messing around or you have no reception, use the published procedures on the charts, in the absence of (or sense of) ATC.Flight Sim AI and ATC simulation is pathetic, ignore it. If you insist on listening and have crashes turned on, use TWR only to clear you for a runway, don't use a approach or center as they'll tell you odd things that aren't real.I have had FS ATC ask me to land on a runway that was with a tailwind and not a full length runway for my class and had to refuse, "Neg approach, request runway X". Which you can't do, in FS2004. You can change the runway though, but... the change is strange and some times doesn't work at all.

You sure about that? I don't see anything that says the pilot must request a visual approach. In VFR conditions, KBED ATIS will generally say "expect visual 29 approach." Maybe you mean a "contact approach"? I'm pretty sure that cannot be offered by ATC but must be requested by the pilot (much like SVFR). Maybe this is a US vs. Europe terminology thing?AIM 5-4-20a. A visual approach is conducted on an IFR flight plan and authorizes a pilot to proceed visually and clear of clouds to the airport. The pilot must have either the airport or the preceding identified aircraft in sight. This approach must be authorized and controlled by the appropriate air traffic control facility. Reported weather at the airport must have a ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility 3 miles or greater. ATC may authorize this type approach when it will be operationally beneficial. Visual approaches are an IFR procedure conducted under IFR in visual meteorological conditions. Cloud clearance requirements of 14 CFR Section 91.155 are not applicable, unless required by operation specifications."AIM 5-4-22a. Pilots operating in accordance with an IFR flight plan, provided they are clear of clouds and have at least 1 mile flight visibility and can reasonably expect to continue to the destination airport in those conditions, may request ATC authorization for a contact approach.b. Controllers may authorize a contact approach provided: 1. The contact approach is specifically requested by the pilot. ATC cannot initiate this approach. EXAMPLE- Request contact approach. 2. The reported ground visibility at the destination airport is at least 1 statute mile. 3. The contact approach will be made to an airport having a standard or special instrument approach procedure. 4. Approved separation is applied between aircraft so cleared and between these aircraft and other IFR or special VFR aircraft. EXAMPLE- Cleared contact approach (and, if required) at or below (altitude) (routing) if not possible (alternative procedures) and advise.c. A contact approach is an approach procedure that may be used by a pilot (with prior authorization from ATC) in lieu of conducting a standard or special IAP to an airport. It is not intended for use by a pilot on an IFR flight clearance to operate to an airport not having a published and functioning IAP. Nor is it intended for an aircraft to conduct an instrument approach to one airport and then, when "in the clear," discontinue that approach and proceed to another airport. In the execution of a contact approach, the pilot assumes the responsibility for obstruction clearance. If radar service is being received, it will automatically terminate when the pilot is instructed to change to advisory frequency.Lee Hetherington, PP-ASEL (KBED)

Lee, that may well be the case, we don`t have anything called a contact approach over here. Is that an approach where you follow specific visual landmarks, something like the canarsie approach into JFK?Cheers,Kjell.Edit,Lee, I see you edited your post after I submitted this one. Yes, the ATIS may well state "Expect visual approach", but that is only to indicate that the conditions can permit this. But it`s still the PIC that have to request a VA.Further edit, seems to me that "our" VA is close to what your AIM 5-4-20 describes.

"In real life ATC will never clear you for a visual approach unless you ask for it, they are not allowed to impose it on you."Not so here in the US. I think you are talking about a "contact approach" which must be requested. A visual approach may be declined by the pilot and you can ask for any valid approach, but "visual approaches" are assigned by controllers. Heck, if it's VMC, ATC sure doesn't want everyone flying to the FAF via the IAF, that would be very inefficient. Visual approach plates also include an MSA diagram which will give you adequate clearance above terrain by sector.Your edited definition still applies to a visual approach. On a recent visual approach to KSFO, ATC asked if we could "see the bridges". As we could, we were cleared for the visual; which as someone said above, requires you to do all the vertical and lateral guidance to the runway (with sometimes restrictions on the IAP).What you may be confused with is that you must remain visual with either the airport (which is why the FS controller asks you this), or the preceding aircraft, and you must execute a missed if you lose this visual reference.Bruce.

>In real life ATC will never clear you for a visual approach>unless you ask for it, they are not allowed to impose it on>you.Here in Phoenix, I have only heard the controllers use the ILS ONCE...even in the dust storm that occured recently, they still used the visual approaches. :-)

> In real life ATC will never clear you for a visual approach unless you ask for it, they are not allowed to impose it on you.You are right when talking about ICAO procedures. PANS ATM/501 "Air Traffic Management" 14th edition(former DOC4444) says about visual approaches:"Subject to the conditions in 6.5.3.3, clearance foran IFR flight to execute a visual approach MAY BE REQUESTED bya flight crew or INITIADED by the controller. In the latter case, theCONCURRENCE of the flight crew shall be REQUIRED.6.5.3.2 Controllers shall exercise caution in initiating avisual approach when there is reason to believe that the flightcrew concerned is not familiar with the aerodrome and itssurrounding terrain. Controllers should also take into considerationthe prevailing traffic and weather conditions wheninitiating visual approaches.6.5.3.3 An IFR flight may be cleared to execute a visualapproach provided the pilot can maintain visual reference tothe terrain and:a) the reported ceiling is at or above the approved initialapproach level for the aircraft so cleared; or:( the pilot reports at the initial approach level or at anytime during the instrument approach procedure that themeteorological conditions are such that withreasonable assurance a visual approach and landingcan be completed."So this is how it should work worldwide, but....you should first check DOC7030 "REGIONAL SUPPLEMENTARY PROCEDURES" and national publications like AIP, AIM, etc...to look after differences that every contracting state may have adopted.In the US a lot of things are different vs ICAO procedures; for example fixed transition altitude at 18'000, holding entry procedures, etc...The CONTACT APPROACH procedure doesn't exist among the ICAO rules.The key to success as always is planning: before going to a foreign country a pilot should be aware of the "local" procedures.Cheers,Olmo Matteo Di CarloCPL/IRLIRFPSIf somebody is interesed in all the 18th annexes to Chicago's Convention (DOC7300) they can be freely downloaded at www.atcbox.com

If you want to really pick nits, a pilot cannot be requried to take any approach. Course you could find yourself doing a nice tour of the countryside or burning a lot of fuel practicing holding patterns till ATC can work in the approach you want. In real life, it is all in how you ask for it. So in reality here in the states, if ATC give me the visual I can still decline and request the ILS,or what have you, and get some extra flight time :) Bob K.

Just to throw my comments in:In controlled airspace, a visual approach must be requested and granted by the approach controller. As a controller, the first thing to clear up with an a/c entering controlled space is (1) clearance to enter (if VFR or unless previously granted by CTR which is handled on the ATC side by the "handoff" procedure). (2) altimeter setting (if request includes descent below FL180 in the US). (3) type of approach and runway to expect. The pilot can request a different type of approach, which may or may not be granted based on various factors. This is done on entry so the pilot can configure systems and discuss any concerns with ATC with plenty of time to spare.Note that tower ultimately decides if clearance to land is granted, so receiving an approach clearance does not imply having clearance to land.Standard operating procedures for the given airport supersede what the book says, at the discretion of the center responsible for the airport. While the AIM has the general guidelines and base rules, they can be supplanted (read further restricted) by local requirements. In particular, visual approach rules may be different based on runway in use, terrain, weather, traffic volume, and other safety concerns.If VFR conditions do not exist, or any of the CATII or III procedures are in effect, you will not get clearance to anything but a precision instrument approach. If you are unable to run a visual approach, you will be directed to your alternate, or the closest airport where suitable conditions exist for the aircraft and crew rating. A good example of this is when you are VFR, but fog rolls in at your destination while you're in flight. ATC will first ask you to go IFR if you are IFR rated (meaning aircraft + pilot). If not, you get vectored to the nearest airspace where VFR conditions exist, and usually end up with a special VFR status.I think that in practice, I prefer ILS approaches because it tends to keep things orderly in a complex ballet of aircraft. Even if conditions are perfect, under heavy volume you may not have much of a choice given the very close separations that exist. I would normally keep visual approaches on a different runway if possible, just to keep instrument approach from visual/contact approach separate. That may not always be possible though at some locations.