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Guest alexhn

Landing assistance

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Guest alexhn

I love to fly manual landings, but it is extremely hard to land on the centre of the runway. Are there any manuals out there (besides manual flying in PMDG docs) which helps with tips for manual landings?For instance, i will always fly in, be perfectly lined up, and then when i go down to flare, i am way off, right on the edge of the runway (this is with no winds whatsoever).If anyone could give me any pointers it would be much appreaciated. (BTW I dont like to let the aircraft fly the landing and final approach)__Alex

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:-lol If only. I've been flying manual approaches and landings with the PMDG since it first came out. Before that I was doing it with the DF 737-400. I still have major issues lining up on center, even in smaller planes. I usually try to pick a point on the panel and use it as a guide, but I think that's wrong as it doesn't work, LOLI find I'm lined up well until DH, then notice I'm not centered at all, and by then it's too late to correct the problem. I think it's just an issue of practice, but there has to be a way to line up I don't know about.Hopefully someone will give us a tip or two. ;)

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Guest alexhn

yes i have exactly the same problem. I look exactly lined up until i am right up on the runway, and find out that i am not near the centre at all.Perhaps you aim to the right or left of the runway? Tips please someone :)__Alex

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Guest PittsburghII

Hi, Before I give my advice, I am going to note that I am in no way a professional pilot :-) I think part of the problem lies in what is called the paralax error. The same effect is known from the old types of cameras where the picture is recorded through a different opening than the view finder. The problem is the offset between the two of them. So, when you are looking at something far away, the error will be very slight as the offset between the viewfinder and the shutter opening will be next to nothing compared to the distance to the subject of the picture. However, when you are moving closer to the subject of the picture, the paralax error becomes ever more significant. My point is that from reading the explanations above you should not expect to be landing smack dead center of the runway. This is because your eyepoint is a little offset from the center line of the aircraft. So, when you are far from the runway, the paralax error will hardly have any effect. However, as you are nearing the runway, it will become more evident that you will not land on the center line. I also seem to remember reading that some pilots will deliberately land a little offset such that the nose gear will not have to constantly bump over the center line lights embedded in the center line. If I am totally off here, please set me straight :-)Hope this helps :-waveBoazEKCH

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Guest bobsk8

In a real airplane , I was taught to look back and forth from the near end to the far end of the runway, as you approach the runway. I find that especially looking at the far end, makes it easier to get the aircraft lined up when flaring.

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Guest oles

I have had the same experience, and been rather frustrated about it. When flying an approach in a real airplane (with the instructor doing the actual landing), I was rather relieved to discover that it was much easier in real life. That made me initially slightly more happy with my FS off-centerline landings.For the last couple of months or so I have been working on circling approaches, which is very demanding in FS due to your very limited view. I have rehearsed the procedures with the autopilot and stopwatch, and then manually taken over the steering and the throttle when the runway came into view through the frontvindow in 2D. Very few seconds to get correct speed, glidepath and centering meet at the TDZE.As a result I find that I am now able to touch down at the desired spot with a much higher degree of precision. I guess that the rather desparate concentration on not wrecking your otherwise succesfull flight from Copenhagen to Innsbruck rwy 08 in the final seconds somehow sharpen your perception of the landing environment.I don't know if this will work for someone other than me, but it's given as an idea.I can recommend LGSM (both ends), LOWI rwy 08, LFKJ rwy 20, LGIR rwy 09, LXGB rwy 09, LPMA rwy 05.Ole(PMDG 738)

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Guest griffinflying

Try for the heck of it to taxi out to runway and then line up perfect with spot view. Switch to the cockpit and VC then see where the centerline is in relation to the panel. That should help ya.Also remember that when lining up with a cross wind your view of the centerline is not going to be the same as when you flare with nose straight down the runway. On approach your nose will be crabbed a little left or right and that view of the centerline will be a tad different. Surface winds also make a difference. In real life they shift and can die out leaving you making a lot of sudden last second corrections to get the nose pointed straight and not drift.

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What is your angle of attack when you flare and also when are you starting your flare? I was told you shouldn't start your flare until somewhere between 35 and 20 feet above the runway because if you are too high you will flare and then you can't see the runway anymore so if you wait until around 35-20 ft and not pitch any higher than 10 degrees you should be able to see towards the last part of the runway the whole way down to touchdown....it works for me. someone correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.Just sayin what works for me. Hope this helps.Tyler

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Guest ebrenchley

I can back-up a previous post, when it mentioned viewing your position as in relation to the far end of the runway. I usually pick a spot around half-way between the threshold and the end and shoot from there.

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Guest lamont

Hi Tyler,Your flare altitude is pretty much ok but 10 degree pitch is way too much. You're risking a tail strike at that angle. Usually 2 to 3 degrees is all that's needed.

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Guest alexhn

Hey guys thanks for all your advice. I put it all into practice and made a great landing. :) I guess the main factor though is just practice. __Alex

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Guest SAS784

4-6 degrees are to my knowledge the correct, or at least the preferred angle during flare and touchdown. When on final I usually have the aircraft around 1-2 degrees pitch up and around 4-5 when flaring and touching down.Regards,Fredrik

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Guest lamont

Fredrik, 4 - 6 is probably ok too. It would be interesting to get one of our resident r/w 737 pilots to chime in on this point.

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Just checked the thread and cant see this type of response so here goes.dont forget that no matter whether you use the VC or the 2D or do it IRL..as Captain you will always be to the left of centreline and copilot will always be right of centreline.The bigger the bird the more displaced you will be (well the 767 and the 757 aint too bad.)Unless you happen to be flying a single seater which has the seat located on the central fore aft axis you will always be displaced from centreline.If you line the bird on the runway in spot view and your nosewheel is on the centreline, the crew are always going to be left or right of centreline no matter what other view you use.when you are approaching the runway this error will be almost neglible because of the distnace from runway. As you get closer the "apparent error" becomes recognisable.So be happy if you are the skipper and the centreline is to your right. If its to your left you have either been busted to FO or you really need more time in the simRob YMA002 - Compass Airlines Australia - a new direction!pogo.jpg

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Some great advice here. I found that sometimes I had the same problem which was then exacerbated on touchdown by wandering all over the runway trying to correct the original failure to line up properly in the approach. I found that I was gripping the joystick too tightly and twisting the grip in moments of tension (like short finals). So i had rudder bias built in when I touched down. To avoid this I let go of the stick at least once on finals for a short time. Hope it helps.Gerry

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Guest nattydread

I was taught to always place the centerline between yuor legs, you will be displaced some, but close enough to center to be safe. By using yourself as a source of reference it tends to make lining up a bit easier...I do the same thing while taxing.Second, I found that crosswinds can be somewhat anticipated(more so in real life). As you fly the approach try to find a rythm/pattern in your correction. I tend to find myself feeling out the wind, correcting, timing the drift, correcting and then eventually trying to anticipate the drift. By the time you are getting on short final you should have the "feeling" down. Know what direction the wind is coming from, "feel" the rythm and then cheat into the wind some. Keep all corrections to 2 deg on approach, 1 deg on short final, and cheat the wind by getting your nose upwind of the centerline. If you have your timing down, the wind should drift you over near centerline and worst case scenario you end up a little off center if you do get the crosswind.

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